Is Asperger's Syndrome worse than Schizophrenia
Callista wrote:
Well, first of all, Joker's a fictional character, and fictional characters are allowed to be happy and completely psychotic at the same time. In real life, psychosis is at best annoying and at worst terrifying. Schizophrenia is not a nice experience whichever way you slice it--whether you're mentally confused and can't keep yourself on the same train of thought, or whether you're seeing and hearing things, or whether you just can't shake the thought that they're out to get you. That's not pleasant.
Second--I don't think there's any way to compare the two. They're just completely different things. Autism causes problems that schizophrenia doesn't cause; schizophrenia causes problems that autism doesn't. In both cases you'll find people who are very independent and conventionally successful, as well as people who are homeless or who need full-time care, as well as the average people who are just getting by.
There are many things we have in common, though--the experience of thinking differently, of facing stereotypes, and of being in a stigmatized minority. People with schizophrenia are individuals, just as people with autism are--by the time you get to such broad generalizations that you can actually make true statements about most people in those groups, the statements will be so broad as to be meaningless.
I think it's possible for people with schizophrenia to have decent, fulfilling lives, just as it's possible for people with autism; but I don't think it makes much sense to make comparisons, because both conditions are just so very diverse.
Second--I don't think there's any way to compare the two. They're just completely different things. Autism causes problems that schizophrenia doesn't cause; schizophrenia causes problems that autism doesn't. In both cases you'll find people who are very independent and conventionally successful, as well as people who are homeless or who need full-time care, as well as the average people who are just getting by.
There are many things we have in common, though--the experience of thinking differently, of facing stereotypes, and of being in a stigmatized minority. People with schizophrenia are individuals, just as people with autism are--by the time you get to such broad generalizations that you can actually make true statements about most people in those groups, the statements will be so broad as to be meaningless.
I think it's possible for people with schizophrenia to have decent, fulfilling lives, just as it's possible for people with autism; but I don't think it makes much sense to make comparisons, because both conditions are just so very diverse.
And the question I usually have is why people with Asperger's tend to get misdiagnosed with Schizophrenia? I know one of my doctors tried to tell me I had Schitzoaffective disorder. Unfortunately the one that stuck, over my childhood Diagnosis (that's because my mother threw away my paperwork, but that's another long story). And what is worse, those diagnoses are hard to get changed, too.
Okay so back to my question: Why do aspies get treated as schizos?
Mirror21 wrote:
And the question I usually have is why people with Asperger's tend to get misdiagnosed with Schizophrenia? I know one of my doctors tried to tell me I had Schitzoaffective disorder. Unfortunately the one that stuck, over my childhood Diagnosis (that's because my mother threw away my paperwork, but that's another long story). And what is worse, those diagnoses are hard to get changed, too.
Okay so back to my question: Why do aspies get treated as schizos?
Okay so back to my question: Why do aspies get treated as schizos?
Flat affect, social withdrawl, different way of talking, often no real eye contact.
All that are symptoms often seen in autistics and in schizophrenics.
Oh and symptoms of overload can look simmilar to psychosis.
I was once missdiagnosed, I changed psychiatrists and that worked.
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Raziel wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
Thank you so much for sharing all this information Raziel (in the other posts too), I find it very fascinating. I don't keep up with the news as I should.
I know McDD isn't a "proper" diagnosis but it is one of those "collection-diagnoses" that I thought hid different co-morbids under one name, like schizoaffective, but I see now that it probably is something much less simple than "just" that. It's really fascinating. I've seen some say that it is what happens to traumatized autistics (and who might have all the possible co-morbids to autism at the same time in varying degrees), and they might be right - because it seems we have a much more sensitive psyche for developing disorders after trauma as our brain is much younger in structure to our age than NTs, so any disorders a NT can develop after severe abuse in very very very early childhood, we might develop after any abuse ever as our brains are "immature" (as they call it), like the hippocampus where PTSD hits hardest. It's a recipe for disaster...
Though it's probably not "just" that either, it's more complex.
I like most of the changes of the DSM I've heard about. Let's hope they will include the neurological causes soon too as they said it would be able to get updated
I know McDD isn't a "proper" diagnosis but it is one of those "collection-diagnoses" that I thought hid different co-morbids under one name, like schizoaffective, but I see now that it probably is something much less simple than "just" that. It's really fascinating. I've seen some say that it is what happens to traumatized autistics (and who might have all the possible co-morbids to autism at the same time in varying degrees), and they might be right - because it seems we have a much more sensitive psyche for developing disorders after trauma as our brain is much younger in structure to our age than NTs, so any disorders a NT can develop after severe abuse in very very very early childhood, we might develop after any abuse ever as our brains are "immature" (as they call it), like the hippocampus where PTSD hits hardest. It's a recipe for disaster...
Though it's probably not "just" that either, it's more complex.
I like most of the changes of the DSM I've heard about. Let's hope they will include the neurological causes soon too as they said it would be able to get updated
Thank you.
It's a bit off-topic but that is very intersting you said about trauma and autism.
I've a trauma since 2 1/2 years (it's getting better since a fiew months) and I had the feeling that first NTs wouldn't necesserily found the experience traumatic, but out of my fiew it was and seconed I also hat the feeling that it's symptoms are a bit different than those of NTs and I think it has to do with autism. Many symptoms I experienced weren't that typical for adulthood trauma, but more for childhood trauma or also sever trauma, like dissoative symptoms or even close to psychotic once. The psychiatrists didn't belief me that they were from the trauma I had, but the intersting thing was, that they were very severe and so on, but as soon as I wasn't in the traumatic environment anymore and someone finally believed me that the symptoms got better just in a fiew months. My entire symptoms weren't that typical, but mor atypical for a trauma (eventhough I had a lot of typical once like flash backs and so on) and I think it's because of the autism.
I also think that our brains works different somehow and that ASD is also connected to many other different disorders and especially to ADHD and ADD and the schizophrenic spectrum.
Yes, all of that's happened to me too, I've pretty much developed every symptom it is possible to get from trauma over the years (also over things many NTs probably would not think would traumatize someone like this) and I noticed how much I fit with how children process trauma (and everything else) but it was just recently I really got into neuroscience and made the connections to what was happening and I can't understand why this is not more widely known because it explains so much about how we work. I would guess the more co-morbids the more neotenized ("immature"/youthful but still an adult supercharged version) our brains are, as that is probably one part of the solution to what autism etc really is (the other big reason possibly being that we had an additional round of cell-division in the fetal stage as we have twice the number of so many things). If your psychiatrists had known/cared that for example the hippocampus is like a big version of a childs then they would understand why.
Auditory processing disorder is connected to an immature hippocampus (speaking of parts that are affected by trauma)
http://legacy.autism.com/families/therapy/auditory.htm wrote:
"We do not know the underlying reason for auditory processing problems in autism; however, autopsy research by Drs. Bauman and Kemper have shown that an area in the limbic system, the hippocampus, is neurologically immature in autistic individuals (Bauman & Kemper, 1994). The hippocampus is responsible for sensory input as well as learning and memory. Basically, information is transferred from the senses to the hippocampus, where it is processed and then transferred to areas of the cerebral cortex for long-term storage. Since auditory information is processed in the hippocampus, the information may not be properly transferred to long-term memory in autistic individuals."
Anomiel wrote:
Yes, all of that's happened to me too, I've pretty much developed every symptom it is possible to get from trauma over the years (also over things many NTs probably would not think would traumatize someone like this) and I noticed how much I fit with how children process trauma (and everything else) but it was just recently I really got into neuroscience and made the connections to what was happening and I can't understand why this is not more widely known because it explains so much about how we work. I would guess the more co-morbids the more neotenized ("immature"/youthful but still an adult supercharged version) our brains are, as that is probably one part of the solution to what autism etc really is (the other big reason possibly being that we had an additional round of cell-division in the fetal stage as we have twice the number of so many things). If your psychiatrists had known/cared that for example the hippocampus is like a big version of a childs then they would understand why.
Auditory processing disorder is connected to an immature hippocampus (speaking of parts that are affected by trauma)
Auditory processing disorder is connected to an immature hippocampus (speaking of parts that are affected by trauma)
http://legacy.autism.com/families/therapy/auditory.htm wrote:
"We do not know the underlying reason for auditory processing problems in autism; however, autopsy research by Drs. Bauman and Kemper have shown that an area in the limbic system, the hippocampus, is neurologically immature in autistic individuals (Bauman & Kemper, 1994). The hippocampus is responsible for sensory input as well as learning and memory. Basically, information is transferred from the senses to the hippocampus, where it is processed and then transferred to areas of the cerebral cortex for long-term storage. Since auditory information is processed in the hippocampus, the information may not be properly transferred to long-term memory in autistic individuals."
See, first you learned a lot from me and now I'm learning a lot from you.
I don't know that much about trauma, and especially not how it differs in autistic people, that's why I'm very thankfull for what you wrote about it, because it explains a lot for me and also why I had this confusion with the psychiatrists back than.
Sadly in my town is no psychiatrist for adults who has real experience in autism, or just a bit.
I also had the feeling that I have to see the places again and talk to the people to get over the trauma. In my case those people where psychiatrists what had advantages and also disadvantages. The advantage was that they didn't traumaticed me on purpouse back then, the disatvantage was that they weren't willing to go over it again and first told me I'm not supposed to talk about it.
Back than I was in the locked ward and suffered under acute claustrophobia and didn't know what happened to me and when I complained about it afterwards they told be that I could have left earlyer, but noone had told me that back than.
And they thought I would have something else, so I had to stay ambulant for nearly two years there and freaked out all the time, because I was suffering under severe anxiety because of that and they didn't belief me.
But then I got expert reports from psychiatrist who don't work there and they wrote that the psychitry acted wrong and then after nearly two years ambulant there they released me and told me I should find someone else.
But next tuesday I can see my old room in the locked ward again, what was very important for me. It isn't used anymore, because it is in the old part of the building. That's the bulding:
Terrible place.
And I'm sorry that I'm off topic.
What I wanted to add that I found it interesting that I also showed some psychotic like symptoms during the trauma, because my half-brother had schizophrenia and that I have since than a higher rate of schizotypal symptoms myself (I already had some befor that). Usually childhood trauma can trigger schizophrenic symptoms, when you have the schizophrenic genes of course. Just that I wasn't a child anymore, but because of the autism I propably had a childlike brain and then it makes sence.
_________________
"I'm astounded by people who want to 'know' the universe when it's hard enough to find your way around Chinatown." - Woody Allen
Raziel wrote:
See, first you learned a lot from me and now I'm learning a lot from you.
I don't know that much about trauma, and especially not how it differs in autistic people, that's why I'm very thankfull for what you wrote about it, because it explains a lot for me and also why I had this confusion with the psychiatrists back than.
Sadly in my town is no psychiatrist for adults who has real experience in autism, or just a bit.
[...]
What I wanted to add that I found it interesting that I also showed some psychotic like symptoms during the trauma, because my half-brother had schizophrenia and that I have since than a higher rate of schizotypal symptoms myself (I already had some befor that). Usually childhood trauma can trigger schizophrenic symptoms, when you have the schizophrenic genes of course. Just that I wasn't a child anymore, but because of the autism I propably had a childlike brain and then it makes sence.
I don't know that much about trauma, and especially not how it differs in autistic people, that's why I'm very thankfull for what you wrote about it, because it explains a lot for me and also why I had this confusion with the psychiatrists back than.
Sadly in my town is no psychiatrist for adults who has real experience in autism, or just a bit.
[...]
What I wanted to add that I found it interesting that I also showed some psychotic like symptoms during the trauma, because my half-brother had schizophrenia and that I have since than a higher rate of schizotypal symptoms myself (I already had some befor that). Usually childhood trauma can trigger schizophrenic symptoms, when you have the schizophrenic genes of course. Just that I wasn't a child anymore, but because of the autism I propably had a childlike brain and then it makes sence.
You don't have to apologize to me and they others reading shouldn't need it either as we are very much on topic anyway...
I cried when I read what had happened to you, that is so horrible. I had flashbacks of not being let out to smoke during the evening/night when I had my autism assessment - which is a much less traumatic thing, I cannot - do not want to - begin to imagine what happened to you. I don't know in detail how trauma works, just hope that just seeing this place again would not traumatize you even further as if we are this susceptible that might be too much? It is very understandable you reacted like you did, anyone should understand that. I by no means meant to discredit it by mentioning that we seem to get it from so much slighter trauma. When something like that happens it is even worse for us... I am so happy this kind of behavior wasn't condoned and you got your freedom again (though what justice I think they deserve is another thing altogether ).
Yes everything makes sense now, doesn't it? Anything that can damage children psychologically and cause disorders do so even more in us at any age. That explains so much, like you said with schizophrenia and childhood trauma...
Anomiel wrote:
You don't have to apologize to me and they others reading shouldn't need it either as we are very much on topic anyway...
I cried when I read what had happened to you, that is so horrible. I had flashbacks of not being let out to smoke during the evening/night when I had my autism assessment - which is a much less traumatic thing, I cannot - do not want to - begin to imagine what happened to you. I don't know in detail how trauma works, just hope that just seeing this place again would not traumatize you even further as if we are this susceptible that might be too much? It is very understandable you reacted like you did, anyone should understand that. I by no means meant to discredit it by mentioning that we seem to get it from so much slighter trauma. When something like that happens it is even worse for us... I am so happy this kind of behavior wasn't condoned and you got your freedom again (though what justice I think they deserve is another thing altogether ).
Yes everything makes sense now, doesn't it? Anything that can damage children psychologically and cause disorders do so even more in us at any age. That explains so much, like you said with schizophrenia and childhood trauma...
I cried when I read what had happened to you, that is so horrible. I had flashbacks of not being let out to smoke during the evening/night when I had my autism assessment - which is a much less traumatic thing, I cannot - do not want to - begin to imagine what happened to you. I don't know in detail how trauma works, just hope that just seeing this place again would not traumatize you even further as if we are this susceptible that might be too much? It is very understandable you reacted like you did, anyone should understand that. I by no means meant to discredit it by mentioning that we seem to get it from so much slighter trauma. When something like that happens it is even worse for us... I am so happy this kind of behavior wasn't condoned and you got your freedom again (though what justice I think they deserve is another thing altogether ).
Yes everything makes sense now, doesn't it? Anything that can damage children psychologically and cause disorders do so even more in us at any age. That explains so much, like you said with schizophrenia and childhood trauma...
You know I could say "good by" to everything that happened to me back than, but not really the trauma, because I had the feeling I "lost" something back than, I lost a part of my soul in that room and I have the STRONG feeling I have to go back to say "good by" to that time and to pick up what I "lost" there. I know it's kind of silly, but I kind of NEED to do that. I can't move on so long I haven't done that, I just can't.
I'm frightened, even a lot, but I can't help it and the only psychiatrist I trust in that terrible house is going with me to see the old room. But no matter what happens, that house will always be terrible for me and I'll never like it, but I think I have the right not to after all that, that happened there.
I can tell then on tuesday how it went, when you are interested.
edit:
But actually the story contunes there. They kicked me out sometime in august last year and sended a report to my insurence, they weren't evel allowed to send without my agreement and so I had even more trouble because of that. On January 2nd I called in that psychiatry, because I had a friend over and I couldn't handle the situation, he was suicidal, but the psychiatrist on the phone thought I just wanted attention and didn't send me any help. Later on that night my friend was dead and since that time they are nice to me, but now it's a bit too late...!
So and that's why they finally agreed showing me my old room after 2 1/2 years, because there first has someone to die until they took me serious I guess. At least that's my feeling about it.
I don't know why this all happened, but I think it's because they have no experiences with autism and I just don't fit into their theories.
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wittgenstein
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NO!! However, I did volunteer work with schizophrenics,they are cool. However, their coping skills are far less then aspies.
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