Prejucises by autistic people about autism

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nessa238
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06 Jan 2013, 8:48 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
No its not.

Its subjective reality. Try not to assign the lowest worst most despicable motives and attributes to everyone.

As you are an individualist why do you regard all others as uniform?

sentences like "You are more NT than me, hence will always look down on me as you think yourself neurologically superior" mean that basically you are judging me on the basis of people who are not me.


Because most people are very uniform to me

It's the very rare person who stands out

You're intelligent but still quite generic (from my point of view)

I can only say it as I see it

Your insistence on me being 'wrong' is a predictable, conformist stance that I find tedious



Last edited by nessa238 on 06 Jan 2013, 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Eloa
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06 Jan 2013, 8:50 pm

nessa238 wrote:
Eloa wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
It's fairly obvious to me that people like myself and B9 are more 'autistic', hence we see things in a more clear-cut, black and white way and those who are heading more towards the NT end of the spectrum see things in a more 'grey' manner. Hence the disagreements. This is why I will always support a person like B9 whether he's right or wrong as I feel more 'kinship with him.
I don't think some people here 'get' this kinship feeling and it's probably because your kinship is closer to the NT end of the spectrum but you don't want to play down the deep end with the big boys, you prefer to try and 'lord it' over people further down the spectrum, which is pretty crass in my opinion - go and interact with your own type instead of trying to impose NT-related thinking onto people who aren't interested in it.

I have an innate 'like me/not like me' instinct


I recall that a couple month ago you did not seem to understand the concept of "executive dysfunction" a couple members reported to be severe in their cases.
When you read literature written by autistic individuals on the more severe end of the spectrum or reports being written about individuals on the more severe end of the spectrum, who cannot write themselves, it should be clear, that "executive dysfunction" is an innate outcome in more severe autism.
I cannot recall you supporting these members reporting it, which gives me difficulty to understand your statement of being "more autistic".
And b9 reported repeatedly he does not feel any "we" regarding his experience of having Aspergers in relatin to other people on this board, but you used this "we", which makes your statement illogical to me.


No, I understand executive dysfunction perfectly. What I did not understand was people not being able to use common sense - the two are different things.

I have gone through a lot of changes as regards my attitude towards my autism, from wantign t deny it completely, to accepting it and wanting to push back against people who make me feel bad for being how I am; expressing myself as I do.


I looked up the definition of "common sense":
"sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts".
In autism the perception differs from neurotypical perception in many areas, depending on the severity of traits.
In that the differing perception can impede the executive function in various areas and degrees.


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answeraspergers
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06 Jan 2013, 8:51 pm

Do buddist monks get suicidal after enlightenment? No

To me its more good boundary function that are your shields rather than your ego.

Defensive functioning is part of ego but good boundary function is better.

Ive had wine, its 2 am.

I can believe arguing kept me awake.



nessa238
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06 Jan 2013, 8:51 pm

Eloa wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Eloa wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
It's fairly obvious to me that people like myself and B9 are more 'autistic', hence we see things in a more clear-cut, black and white way and those who are heading more towards the NT end of the spectrum see things in a more 'grey' manner. Hence the disagreements. This is why I will always support a person like B9 whether he's right or wrong as I feel more 'kinship with him.
I don't think some people here 'get' this kinship feeling and it's probably because your kinship is closer to the NT end of the spectrum but you don't want to play down the deep end with the big boys, you prefer to try and 'lord it' over people further down the spectrum, which is pretty crass in my opinion - go and interact with your own type instead of trying to impose NT-related thinking onto people who aren't interested in it.

I have an innate 'like me/not like me' instinct


I recall that a couple month ago you did not seem to understand the concept of "executive dysfunction" a couple members reported to be severe in their cases.
When you read literature written by autistic individuals on the more severe end of the spectrum or reports being written about individuals on the more severe end of the spectrum, who cannot write themselves, it should be clear, that "executive dysfunction" is an innate outcome in more severe autism.
I cannot recall you supporting these members reporting it, which gives me difficulty to understand your statement of being "more autistic".
And b9 reported repeatedly he does not feel any "we" regarding his experience of having Aspergers in relatin to other people on this board, but you used this "we", which makes your statement illogical to me.


No, I understand executive dysfunction perfectly. What I did not understand was people not being able to use common sense - the two are different things.

I have gone through a lot of changes as regards my attitude towards my autism, from wantign t deny it completely, to accepting it and wanting to push back against people who make me feel bad for being how I am; expressing myself as I do.


I looked up the definition of "common sense":
"sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts".
In autism the perception differs from neurotypical perception in many areas, depending on the severity of traits.
In that the differing perception can impede the executive function in various areas and degrees.


Ok, point taken

I never said I was without flaws

At least I like to question and debate these things

Most people just don't see things like me though, so it's very frustrating



nessa238
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06 Jan 2013, 8:54 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
Do buddist monks get suicidal after enlightenment? No

To me its more good boundary function that are your shields rather than your ego.

Defensive functioning is part of ego but good boundary function is better.

Ive had wine, its 2 am.

I can believe arguing kept me awake.


It's funny you should mention Buddhists - I think Buddhism has some good ideas but can be potentially dangerous
as it advocates the removal of the ego

A lot of Buddhists have self-immolated and read what happened to the Seymour character in J.D Salinger's books

I've studied this a lot

See - you're worried about how you might be coming across to people - reputation maintenance - very NT!



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06 Jan 2013, 8:56 pm

nessa238 wrote:
I wasn't having a go at you specifically


I didn't think you were having a go at me at all. I just saw your post and pointed out what I perceived it to be. I was trying to find a way to phrase it in a non-accusatory way, because it is very easy to come across as accusing. I am not sure if I succeeded.

Quote:
I think that in the world I inhabit there is little opportunity to feel good about yourself within an NT culture, hence stronger ego defences have to be built up, which can be seen as dysfunctional in one way but in another they can be vital for survival.
Peoples' characters are an amalgam of the battles they've had to fight in my opinion.


I think your last sentence is a fairly insightful comment.

I think I needed and fell back on stronger defenses when I wasn't aware that I was autistic. Now, I find I need to fight fewer battles. I still find certain topics frustrating (say, assertions that people like me should be capable of more things than I actually am).



Last edited by Verdandi on 06 Jan 2013, 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

answeraspergers
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06 Jan 2013, 8:57 pm

I dont think you are "wrong"

I think some things you said are wrong

there is a difference - a very big one.

Im sorry i really can no longer look at a screen



nessa238
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06 Jan 2013, 8:58 pm

Verdandi wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I wasn't having a go at you specifically


I didn't think you were having a go at me at all. I just saw your post and pointed out what I perceived it to be. I was trying to find a way to phrase it in a non-accusatory way, because it is very easy to come across as accusing. I am not sure if I succeeded.

Quote:
I think that in the world I inhabit there is little opportunity to feel good about yourself within an NT culture, hence stronger ego defences have to be built up, which can be seen as dysfunctional in one way but in another they can be vital for survival.
Peoples' characters are an amalgam of the battles they've had to fight in my opinion.


I think your last sentence is a fairly insightful comment.

I think I needed and fell back on stronger defenses when I wasn't aware that I was autistic. Now, I find I need to fight fewer battles. I still find certain topics frustrating (say, assertions that people like me should be capable of more things than I actually am).


Life has basically turned me into a fighter - it was either that or go under

It's like soldiers being programmed to kill though - you can't just turn the switch back off when there's no real danger



nessa238
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06 Jan 2013, 8:58 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
I dont think you are "wrong"

I think some things you said are wrong

there is a difference - a very big one.

Im sorry i really can no longer look at a screen


It's ok I need to go to bed too now :)

For what it's worth, from what I've read of your book excerpts on the website, it looks better than the average AS book

(and that's high praise indeed coming from me!)



Last edited by nessa238 on 06 Jan 2013, 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

answeraspergers
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06 Jan 2013, 9:00 pm

People includes you!

As im spending time bridging the yawning gap between two rigid belief systems - i fessed up some info.

you really have no idea what I'm like if you thin social proof is my bag.

Please stop the labels. Truth accuracy ethics morals integrity justice and so on always rule my assumed NT conformist sheep desires.



nessa238
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06 Jan 2013, 9:01 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
People includes you!

As im spending time bridging the yawning gap between two rigid belief systems - i fessed up some info.

you really have no idea what I'm like if you thin social proof is my bag.

Please stop the labels. Truth accuracy ethics morals integrity justice and so on always rule my assumed NT conformist sheep desires.


Ok - Truce :)



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06 Jan 2013, 9:04 pm

nessa238 wrote:
Life has basically turned me into a fighter - it was either that or go under

It's like soldiers being programmed to kill though - you can't just turn the switch back off when there's no real danger


I think I understand.

I think one of the reasons I have stopped fighting on certain things is because the people around me have expressed some understanding when I explain what my difficulties are. My therapist, for example, takes me seriously and when she argues with me, it's not to tell me I am wrong about myself, but perhaps to disagree with my conclusions.

There are some things I fight pretty hard about, though.



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06 Jan 2013, 9:04 pm

Thanks man

From someone who hates me that means a lot! :D

Peace ;)



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06 Jan 2013, 10:31 pm

b9 wrote:
ProvokesThinking wrote:
Sometimes when I read this forum there are interesting topics and interesting posters, but sometimes I get annoyed of autistic people on this forum with prejudices.


i believe that the majority of people on wrong planet do not have autism.
i think that very many people are attracted to their idea about what autism is.

they think that asperger syndrome means that the "sufferers" look younger than average for their age, and are naive to the point of "cuteness", yet intelligent to the degree that they are oblivious to their genius. asperger syndrome is an attractive "identity" for many disenfranchised people to adopt.

the people who claim that they have autism who speak in terms of "us", and who make statements that claim to be on behalf of all asperger people are, in my opinion, the least likely to be truly autistic.


statements that start with words like "us aspies tend to.." etc make me annoyed because even though i have confirmed asperger syndrome, i would never talk on behalf of anyone else who has asperger syndrome.

the angst against NT's displayed by some posters makes me think they have "adopted" the identity of autism as a rebellion to what they are not impressed with in the wide world.

i have always presumed that what goes through my mind is peculiar to me, and i would never make a statement that presumes i am a spokesperson for anyone else.

i hate sentences that start with "well us aspies are....". how arrogant. i am not like them and if they are trying to describe asperger syndrome on behalf of other asperger people, i immediately suspect they are wrong in their self diagnosis.


a defining characteristic of my mind is that i presume that no one thinks like me, and i would never speak on behalf of anyone else without consulting them.


i very much dislike the superiority complexes that many people are deluded with concerning their suspicion of their AS.

many people on this site feel superior to the rest of the world because they feel like they are in the same league as einstein or newton (or anyone of note who they hastily diagnose with AS), and in their minds, i am an unintelligent buffoon because i do not measure up to their ideals of AS. but i am the one with medically diagnosed AS and they do not have it , but they say i am too stupid to have AS, but i think they are living in a delusion of grandeur.

i know many people on this site truly do have AS, but there are more people who are just riding on a bandwagon that they wish to belong on for incorrect reasons.


This is a very well written post, i like it.

It seems the Asperger community has become almost like a clique (is that the right word?) yet everyone is different, Aspie or NT etc.
They say not one Autistic is alike. We are all different people.

:farao:

Also i just wanted to add, i'm sure newly diagnosed or even confused people come across this site. Sometimes it seems there's a list of specifics that apply for Aspies, and if the new person didn't have the same interests of the majority; it doesn't mean that they aren't on the spectrum. They might get confused as their likes are different from the typical likes of Aspies on here?