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Female-To-Male Transsexual People Have More Autistic Traits,

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epitome81
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14 Feb 2013, 5:48 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
You might be a different kettle of fish to me, then.

I just have the usual symptoms of high androgens, my gentials are typical for females.


http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides ... rview.html

If you have an enlarged clitoris that is enough to back intersex as a consideration for many doctors, again that is very subjective. There are other physiological differences that while seen as different, won't set off the red flag that intersex is a possibility. When this is combined with hormonal and developmental confirmation, while subjective a doctor or specialist could see it either way to be entire fair.


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epitome81
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14 Feb 2013, 5:53 pm

zemanski wrote:
I am finding this all very informative - this is an area I know very little about but I do have a son considering FtM reassignment and we're very much in the early stages so we don't have any idea about whether or not the roots for him are genetic, hormonal, or what yet or even whether he might be intersex (outwardly there are no signs except extra body hair which I also have) and his best friend has PCOS and is just figuring out how that affects her.


I just have to tell you I am so happy that you're being a part of the decision and process instead of how many people act, you are awesome!


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zemanski
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14 Feb 2013, 5:57 pm

epitome81 wrote:

I just have to tell you I am so happy that you're being a part of the decision and process instead of how many people act, you are awesome!


Thank you, I want him to be happy whoever and whatever he wants to be :oops:



puddingmouse
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14 Feb 2013, 5:57 pm

@ epitome81 I was going to ask how enlarged is enlarged enough? But then you can't answer that here. :P

I'm guessing most women with high androgen production won't be in the 'red flag' range, but maybe a few will according to a few doctors.

I don't know, though. I think like you say, it's very subjective. That's why I prefer to define intersex as something like chromosomes or obviously ambiguous genitals.



zemanski
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14 Feb 2013, 6:04 pm

I honestly wouldn't know how large it's supposed to be never mind how large enlarged is - most women have never seen anyone else's and looking at your own isn't something most women do more than once or twice - I think



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14 Feb 2013, 6:08 pm

zemanski wrote:
I honestly wouldn't know how large it's supposed to be never mind how large enlarged is


I wonder how many gynaecologists even know? Probably more than the rest of us because they've seen so many, but I don't know if that's something they look for when they're examining.



Last edited by puddingmouse on 14 Feb 2013, 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

epitome81
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14 Feb 2013, 6:09 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
@ epitome81 I was going to ask how enlarged is enlarged enough? But then you can't answer that here. :P

I'm guessing most women with high androgen production won't be in the 'red flag' range, but maybe a few will according to a few doctors.

I don't know, though. I think like you say, it's very subjective. That's why I prefer to define intersex as something like chromosomes or obviously ambiguous genitals.


Completely understandable! :wink:

I'm not certain there is any textbook definition of how much is over the line, but it is a gray area that can get subjective from every angle. No pun intended.

I'm glad you follow and I hope this didn't get too graphic... :oops:


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zemanski
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14 Feb 2013, 6:10 pm

sorry - @ puddingmouse

there's probably a handbook!



Last edited by zemanski on 14 Feb 2013, 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

puddingmouse
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14 Feb 2013, 6:12 pm

epitome81 wrote:

I'm glad you follow and I hope this didn't get too graphic... :oops:


As you might've guessed, I'm very difficult to embarrass. It's only biology, anyway. :wink:



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14 Feb 2013, 6:14 pm

epitome81 wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
@ epitome81 I was going to ask how enlarged is enlarged enough? But then you can't answer that here. :P

I'm guessing most women with high androgen production won't be in the 'red flag' range, but maybe a few will according to a few doctors.

I don't know, though. I think like you say, it's very subjective. That's why I prefer to define intersex as something like chromosomes or obviously ambiguous genitals.


Completely understandable! :wink:

I'm not certain there is any textbook definition of how much is over the line, but it is a gray area that can get subjective from every angle. No pun intended.

I'm glad you follow and I hope this didn't get too graphic... :oops:


Yes it did! - I'm overtly offended!

No I'm not actually as I'm a very tolerant person - perhaps you could learn a thing or two from my stance



epitome81
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14 Feb 2013, 6:25 pm

@puddingmouse

I have a history of saying things that... "shake up" those who aren't so comfortable with things like Bio... :lol:

@nessa238

I wish I could learn to not walk the tightrope and tread with too much caution... :oops:

My goal by age 40 is to get degrees in sexual and gender studies to lessen this balancing act and promote acceptance along with challenging societal norms through advocacy and activist ventures on a higher level than possible as a citizen. Growing up agender and asexual in a heteronormative, gender binary world is a ton of motivation. These topics can be very unsettling for people, research like your OP is just....... I can't even describe what it has done to my life and the lives of so many people I've known...


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Last edited by epitome81 on 14 Feb 2013, 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nessa238
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14 Feb 2013, 6:28 pm

epitome81 wrote:
@puddingmouse

I have a history of saying things that... "shake up" those who aren't so comfortable with things like Bio... :lol:

@nessa238

I wish I could learn to not walk the tightrope and tread with too much caution... :oops:

My goal by age 40 is to get degrees in sexual and gender studies to lessen this balancing act and promote acceptance along with challenging societal norms through advocacy and activist on a higher level than possible as a citizen.


I don't think we're on the same wavelength at all I'm afraid

I feel you've taken over my thread to voice political opinion which is not what it was meant to be about



epitome81
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14 Feb 2013, 6:29 pm

nessa238 wrote:

I don't think we're on the same wavelength at all I'm afraid

I feel you've taken over my thread to voice political opinion which is not what it was meant to be about


Political?


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nessa238
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14 Feb 2013, 6:30 pm

epitome81 wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

I don't think we're on the same wavelength at all I'm afraid

I feel you've taken over my thread to voice political opinion which is not what it was meant to be about


Political?


All the societal oppression stuff

I've got as much right to an opinion on this subject as you have



epitome81
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14 Feb 2013, 6:35 pm

nessa238 wrote:
epitome81 wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

I don't think we're on the same wavelength at all I'm afraid

I feel you've taken over my thread to voice political opinion which is not what it was meant to be about


Political?


All the societal oppression stuff

I've got as much right to an opinion on this subject as you have


It's not political oppression, not really where I wish to focus, however you make a reasonable point considering who funds most of this "research".

I don't really have political motive, more a focus on education and broadening conceptual possibilities. I'd hardly call the study "scientific" and would go far enough to consider it absurd.

Not taking the human condition and confirmation bias into account is a dangerous trend in what (at the end of the day) is technically still psuedoscience.


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nessa238
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14 Feb 2013, 6:38 pm

epitome81 wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
epitome81 wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

I don't think we're on the same wavelength at all I'm afraid

I feel you've taken over my thread to voice political opinion which is not what it was meant to be about


Political?


All the societal oppression stuff

I've got as much right to an opinion on this subject as you have


It's not political oppression, not really where I wish to focus, however you make a reasonable point considering who funds most of this "research".

I don't really have political motive, more a focus on education and broadening conceptual possibilities. I'd hardly call the study "scientific" and would go far enough to consider it absurd.

Not taking the human condition and confirmation bias into account is a dangerous trend in what (at the end of the day) is technically still psuedoscience.


The research makes perfect sense to me

You have your own agenda and the research doesn't fit it so it's no wonder you don't like it