classic autism members what you should know about aspies

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The points you are making don't address my criticism.

Hi everybody,

I agree one shouldn't separate Asperger's from autism. I also agree that Aspergians should not place themselves on a "higher plain" within the autistic spectrum.

I also believe in incorporating NT input into my life, knowing full well that NT's might not understand autistic thinking too well. NT's and Autistics need each other; one cannot exist without the other. NT's need to find middle ground with Autistics; Autistics need to find middle ground with NT's.

I want to propose something; please tell me if you agree:

People with Asperger's have relative difficulty with visually-oriented learning; they tend to do better on verbal tasks (e.g., having to do with reading, words, semantics, etc). They can suffer from "non-verbal learning disability."

People with HFA have relative difficulty with verbally-oriented tasks which they cannot "picture"; they tend to do better with visually-oriented learning (i.e., they are visual learners).

Thank you for all input.

I am not a visual learner; I have difficulty with visual tasks. I probably have a "non-verbal learning disability."

Could you elaborate?



When you decide to post some real criticism maybe I'll address it. Good criticism requires you be at least moderately knowledgeable about the topic you are criticizing. You seem to be completely ignorant as to what accommodations are and what purpose they serve.

Please you are the one who seems lack knowledge, and acting like your opinion are facts when they aren't.

You simply dismiss and ignore anything you disagree with.

How can you still say this isn't unfair:

You have a Person A who doesn't get accommodations, and you have Person B who does get extra time accommodation.

On a 60 minute exam person A would get 90%, while person B would only get 70%. If given 30 minute extra time however Person A would get 98%, and Person B would get 95%. Because Person B gets accommodations he actually get 90 minutes, while person A only gets 60 minutes. The accommodations give the impression he is able to answer more questions correctly than Person A, when the truth is he isn't.

You're right, it's not fair to the other kid. But it's not fair to the Autistic kid to have Autism. THey are just trying to even it all out so there is some semblance of fair once it's all weighed up. But if you're looking for everything to be perfectly fair, you may as well give up, not gonna happen.

This coming from someone who wanders into threads to assert that having autism is a living hell for everyone who has it? Please.



I think if you read my post history, you'll find that I do actually respond to disagreement with discussion and information to support my position, and that I have in fact changed my mind given new information.



This example is meaningless. All else being equal then yes, giving one of them extra time is an advantage. But the point of accommodations is that all else isn't equal. Some students can't focus in moderately noisy environments and will do much worse on tests if they have to take those tests on a noisy environment. How is it fair for someone to be forced to take a test in an environment that will make their performance suffer? Only in DVCal world would allowing that person to test in a quiet room so they can function at their full capacity and receive the score their understanding of the topic should insure be considered an unfair advantage.

Similarly, students may need extra time on exams because they have dyslexia and it is harder to read the test, or because it takes them longer to process the information, or other cognitive issues that would make it harder to accurately gauge their knowledge of the subject when taking it in the same environment as everyone else, with the same amount of time as everyone else.

A world where disabled students are actively discriminated against and literally forced into worse life outcomes because they cannot learn effectively is apparently the world you want. You want a world where significant numbers disabled students and employees cannot function well enough to get a proper education or hold down a job because you think that accommodations that allow them to function effectively in those environments is an "unfair advantage." Because you think people can just force themselves to overcome their impairments, because apparently you live in a fantasy world where people can just make themselves function better by sheer will alone.

For the rest of us who live in the real world where impairment means that one experiences limitations, and where some of those limitations can be alleviated to some extent with accommodations and modifications, your assertions are patently absurd.

Last edited by Verdandi on 25 Mar 2014, 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have the "nonverbal learning disability" which is said to be characteristic of Asperger's--but I had a major-league speech delay--no words until age 5.

To label one purely "Aspergian" or purely one with "Classic/Kanner-type" autism is something which does not take into account the complexity, the subtleties, (and the Efflorescent Colorfulness) of the Autistic Spectrum (which has thousands of colors and flavors!).

Ok well a lot of times an autistic might do somthing that might seem strange or agrivaring to others like stimming and squealing or being overly attaced to certin objects .

People either don't get or get weirded out by my lack of looking at peoples faces or why I often don't respond to things fast and needs patientce and unserstanding.

And on our side we often are very sensitive and may get overwhelmed if they think
People don't understand them or are making fun of them .


When autistics stim make noises or are in their own world people often feel pity for them like it's causing them suffering . When it's really not. Or it might get the person to get angry and annoyed an think their crazy.

People often confuse disabled behaivor with mentally ill or even worse deliberate behaivor.

This thread was helpful to me.

You act like everything agrees with your opinion, when the fact is their are plenty of people who agree with my position on accommodations, and this is why Law Schools and Medical Schools continue to flag of the test scores of students who take LSAT and MCAT exams, and receive accommodations. They agree with me, that those who receive such accommodations do receive and advantage and scores are not directly comparable.

I guess everyone here generally agrees with this final point you made, as the thread stopped dead, which imo generally tends to indicate some kind of consensus. So is this the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper? (quoting an imo over-dramatic poet, T.S. Eliot)

But re your point about diabetes not being the same as some other kinds of disabilities I agree. It is obviously not the same. The problem is where to go with it? I am not sure making this point will really change the minds of anyone here who feels they should be accommodated. I do tend to kind of agree with some of what you have written, but the way you have painted it is kind of a bit aspie (ASD:-?) black and white. You seem to be saying that certain people are not able to do certain things because they are lazy. I would generally tend to not agree with this kind of comment. I think what you may be trying to say is that certain people would have a better chance to succeed if they exercised and built up certain kinds of muscle, and that certain social tendencies that exist and are getting more entrenched seem to be encouraging these people not to exercise and so build up certain muscles, and there is an implication that this kind of tendency may be in some ways dysfunctional, and with this I agree, but it is not a completely black and white situation in the way you seem to be trying to paint it.

So how do you feel about affirmative action? Personally I am a firm supporter of affirmative action, but I am assuming you are not, though I am not sure. The popular view seems to be generally against affirmative action at this point in time. This question is specifically asked in order to help sort out some confusion on this thread in terms of thinking in generalities and thinking in specifics. People will always think in generalities to some degree, but in order to begin to sort things out it is necessary to think in specifics. I think the diabetes---vs (some kinds of) disabilities does not give enough added dimension and nuance to enquire into this subject, but more locks things into a fixed position, which is why I have brought this up.

(p.s. I have used the term aspie here, and sometimes use it on WP, and will explain why at another time, but in my life I never think of myself as having aspergers syndrome but I do think about my self as being autistic, and when I describe myself to others in terms of these, which would be rare, I always use the term autistic. Re communicating here, I think that at least sometimes it is can be a functional division, but I am not entirely sure, as the point some are making about this does seem to make some kind of sense if looked at from a particular angle.

To turn this around and approach from the other side of the stick--yes, we are all autistic, and I can see the point some are making, but we are also all people, and yet certain people seem to get quite upset if some kind of autistic characteristic of brain function is described as also being, in a less overt form, a characteristic of all people. And yet autistic people imo have much more in common with all people then they do with each other. I did not come here to discuss this latter point, though....just mentioning it, as it came uip for me when I read this entire thread, but my main intent is to address DVcal.)

No, I don't act like everyone agrees with my opinion. I just don't consider law schools and medical schools to exactly be authorities on what is appropriate for accommodation and what is not.

In a different thread, you rated some of your autistic difficulties as effectively subclinical - below the threshold necessary for a diagnosis (although if they were higher as a child, you can still be diagnosed). I'm not questioning your diagnosis here, but I want to point out that you, as someone who indicates that he has fairly mild difficulties do not have the perspective to judge how those who have more severe difficulties need to function in the world.

The thing about your argument is that in the real world, the modern world, today, there is significant bias against disability and disabled people. There are many people who use the same arguments you used with regards to things like disabled parking spots, wheelchair ramps, curb cuts, and other primarily physical accommodations explicitly intended for accessibility to people who are physically disabled. Penn and Teller's "BS" has an entire episode on what disability accommodations are bad, but there isn't a single rational argument in that episode, just a lot of bloviating on Penn Jillette's part about why it's unfair to force businesses to be accessible. That's Penn being a libertarian, not Penn being a rational human being.

So, in a society where disability is often poorly understood, often hated, often viewed with pity, and often presented as something people are morally obligated to somehow ~overcome~, preferably without any help, arguing that law schools and medical schools agree with you on this carries basically no ethical or moral authority.

And again you completely failed to address any of my actual arguments, choosing to make the post about attacking me instead, and reasserting your appeal to false authority (yes, your argument about law schools and medical schools is a logical fallacy - that they agree with you is meaningless and does not support your argument at all).



Do you ever get whiplash from leaping to bizarre unfounded conclusions?

Hi Adam autistic!

I agree that we need each other and should try and help each other. Problem is it is usually a one way street. It ends up as us compromising ourselves to the point of exhaustion and them not doing so and not even acknowledging what we have done or that we exist. This unfairness problem is inherent to any minority group especially small minority because the majority do not see us or see us when see us when we are "acting". But other groups have gotten more recognition so we need to rethink our tactics.