I'm really sick of attacks against NT's here

Post Reply New Topic

I'm not sure what you have against me here but I've never bothered you and this kind of attack is not cool.

Assuming I have something against you.



Disagreeing with someone isn't attacking them.

---

After taking some time to reconsider this comment, it actually seems to me to be smarter than I previously realized. You set it up for a different quality of response, but I completely missed it.

No dianthus, I do not want this, but it seems that some misguided others here want it, but maybe their pain is worse than mine and they want to try to protect others from feeling this pain.

It must really be an alien feeling to be so smart and sensitive and to have so many people not really understand you.. I know that feeling very well myself, though, due to some kind of brain damage, I am not as smart as I once. It's not making my day to write this:-)

Thank you...I'm relieved that you understood my post. I was feeling a bit exasperated and overwhelmed by all the different ideas being expressed here, and I wanted to get down to the point. Unfortunately I think I am about to start rambling again.

I don't like for anyone to feel pain either, and I certainly don't want anyone to suffer. Suffering isn't necessary at all but pain is a natural part of life. I don't especially like for life to be that way, but it is what it is. But I would hope to protect people from experiencing pain to the extent that it becomes suffering, if that makes sense. And I know that many people here have PTSD and I would not want to inadvertently trigger someone to get upset on that level.

On a forum, if people are allowed to express themselves freely at all, it's likely that someone will be upset or hurt or triggered, when it's not intended, because we all have different things we are sensitive about that others might not understand. And I don't totally understand what sort of comments about NTs are upsetting to people, or why, so that is why I asked for examples.

I get the sense that there are two really opposite perspectives here, not just in this thread but what I've seen of the forum overall...one is that people who have been treated like they are different from NTs, and may have been treated badly or segregated because of it, just want to be considered the same as everyone else. It seems like it is a very touchy and painful subject for some people to be reminded of being different.

The other, somewhat opposite perspective I see expressed here, the one that I share, is that those who are undiagnosed, or those who ARE diagnosed but perhaps are very high functioning (ie, gifted) do not have our differences and impairments recognized and have been expected to function as "normal" like an NT throughout our lives. It is deeply frustrating for me to continually be expected to do things that other people do, or to WANT to do thing other people enjoy and wonder why I can't. I just want to understand how and why I am different so I adjust my own expectations of myself to a level where I can function better without burning myself out, which is why I post here and it has been very helpful so far. So naturally I want to continue having the kinds of discussions that have been helpful.

I think Ezra's OP post touched on something else though, which stood out to me more than topic of attacks against NTs...that is that autistic people can be very hurtful to each other and bully each other in quite horrible ways. I wonder if that is the underlying source of pain here, that may sometimes be getting triggered by comments about NTs.



I do feel very alien, for a great many reasons, and I don't feel quite so smart as I used to either.

I don't have time to reply to this whole message right now, but if you are trying to get the point across that other people feel they are being discounted by a certain approach in the same way I feel you are discounting my brain damage, then you have succeeded, as it was very difficult and greatly unpleasant for me to write about that in the part quoted. I am still reconciling within myself about that horrible thing, and it is one of the worst if not the worst most sickening and helpless feelings of my entire life. And when I say you have succeeded this is in no way intended as a guilt trip but as an actual compliment.

Maybe the real enquiry can start from here. I am not sure I'm up to it, though.

The thing is that I don't really care that much if I am discounted as to me it is just words, so this may put me in a different position psychologically than a lot of other people, and I have deliberately developed a kind of thick skin in a way which I think is very good, so not shutting stuff out (as far as I know) but more being impartial, but other people may not have developed this impartial quality and/or have had a different life experience and so are very caught up in what other people say to them. .

I did not mean to be discounting towards you littlebee, I am sorry.

You know what?

Differences of opinion are an inevitable part of life.

The best approach to take in these situations is to believe, in your heart, that:
Opinions are like buttholes: everybody has one.

You have your take, I have my take on things.

A nice friendly debate is nice; but when it starts taking on a character whereby people are abusive to each other,
it's no fun any more. It also doesn't resolve the problem; it extends it and exacerbates it.

maybe try looking at "attacks against NT's" as a method of self protection in minimizing negative feelings one might have by taking in the words or actions of other people. i guess you could relate that to an ad hominem, but to call it a fallacy is to ignore the fact that it is an effective technique, i think.

or, for me at least, when people say things to me negative, positive, neutral i am not able to "let it go" without processing it 1st. i have to "try the idea on" in order to evaluate it. this is tiring.

so if i was able to put up a filter that said "oh they're NT, they're "bad" " and then i don't have to process that, i can see the advantages if you were being forced to process a lot of things, and even more so if they were hurtful.

we all have ways that we take a break from information processing, i think.

it seems related to the same system that leads to so called "black and white" thinking, but why we all don't come up with the same answers as each other.

or i dunno maybe they have a completely different reason, but that makes sense to me.

from my point of view NT isn't a real thing, so i don't really feel anything about someone attacking NTs, but i do often feel that they are hurt, angry stuck people. i don't know what they're going through and lacking that i lack all the information, so i can't make a judgement on it.

In Psychology (in English), this is called the Cognitive Miser theory. Just because an idea doesn't stand up to logical examination doesn't make it a bad survival strategy, for the reasons you mention and others. I think it poses a particular danger for people with autism, because of the allure of "black and white" thinking.

We don't come up with the same answers because we have different experiences, and our answers don't have to make sense a priori. We will spend considerable mental energy justifying the answers that we feel are correct, rather than coldly examining them. Everybody's minds work that way, though.

Strongly agree, we're not persecuted geniuses or X-men or aliens or elves or the next step in evolution, we're just regular old humans with a developmental disorder.



Yeah, there are people with ASD who are mean and rude and bully others just like there are Nts like that, for sure.

The person I care about most in the world, my mummy, is NT. I wouldn't exist if it weren't for NTs nor would I be able to survive and eat .

I have been giving more thought to this, and the more I consider it, the more I can see the point.

It has sort of become an 'us and them' mentality, which creates a psychological barrier to begin with.

I just saw another thread; 'Are Aspie's Superior?' I mean superior to whom, NT's?

Making the distinction between 'typical' and 'atypical' then using that as a framework to place people according to mental functioning doesn't make much sense.

By us 'attacking' NT's, aren't we only as guilty as having the same intolerance they do?

I just think we are all different (not better/worse), and there can be as much of a difference between an Autism sufferer and an NT, as two people who have Autism...yeah, some are 'stereo' typical and some are 'mono' typical, you know?

I think that this just gives 'normal' people more cannon fodder to attack us with.

"Are Aspies Superior?" was a joke device used to get people into the thread. It's more about Aspies inventing things, rather than anything superiority to NT's.

Otherwise, I agree with those who believe NT's and people with ASD are people--nor more, and no less.

I should have read the thread and posted on it, before just using the title as an example to illustrate my point, but it still does to some extent.

I shall go and peruse it now and thanks.

There is an "us" vs "them." It's because we are a minority and we are generally discriminated against and there's also a lot prejudice against us. It's no different than discrimination or prejudice against blacks, Muslims, gays/lesbians, or Jews. It's human nature to judge people others and to fear the unknown.

There are also a lot of people on the Autism spectrum that discriminate. Some aspies (such as myself) discriminate and are bitter because of past trauma or abuse from "normies."

The more educated people are on both sides of the fence the more barriers will be broken down and there will also be acceptance.

Hmmm...I can also see that.

However, in my limited observations on human behaviour (I am trying so hard not to stereotype or generalise), any trait which makes one individual different from another is 'grounds' for discrimination and prejudice.

I shall use an example which I read about...

http://global.christianpost.com/news/at ... on-119064/

Atheists are being persecuted against, Muslims are being persecuted against, Christians are being persecuted against, Hindus and Buddhists are being persecuted against, Jews are being persecuted against, women are being persecuted against, men are being persecuted against, gay people are being persecuted against, Aspies sufferers are being persecuted against, NT's are being persecuted against...

Tell me, is there anybody left out there who isn't?