The NT Has No Clothes

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I'm not sure that I would say nt behaviour is useless, vain or superficial. I just don't value the social experience as much as the nt world does.

Perhaps I should say that I am not able to be happy in life because I am distracted by the flaws of society.

Well, I would also say that neurotypicals are privy to things I will never know about. So it seems to me that the nts are taking this too personally. What I'm trying to talk about is the autistic experience and that we are aware of things that nts are not.

Well, it could be that they hate both the art and the artists. Cultural innovation is often uncomfortable at first, when it has the potential to upset widespread popular beliefs and tastes.

But there is also this funny little thing called the Halo Effect, where when we assume that one thing is good about something, everything about it is good. Hence we overestimate the character of beautiful people, underestimate the calories in diet foods, and quite possibly overestimate the charm and cheer of cultural creative types until we actually meet them, and then are like "what the heck is wrong with them?"

The pop-culture view of Aspies often conflates them with quirky NTs (who may often be relatives of Aspies), and shows them in a social group where they can be accepted despite their faux pas because their cultural creativity is just that awesome. (Sheldon and Amy of the Big Bang theory, the title character of Bones, and Abed of Community all have appreciative, or at least tolerant, bands of mostly quirky NTs they hang out with.) But the same neurological diversity that creates those kinds of people, who are only a little off by mainstream standards, also creates autistic and depressed people who are not brilliant cultural creatives yet have all the same "offness," often to a greater degree. Rather than accepting the existence of these people as a necessity in the gene pool to keep a culture healthy, they're written off as dangerously deranged, like many bipolar and schizophrenic people who also don't happen to have what it takes to prove their worth individually in art and science.

So, you get this dichotomy of honorary quirky NTs (whose challenges are underestimated) vs. dangerous loons (whose challenges are overestimated). The neurodivergent people lumped into the latter category seem to suffer from a Reverse Halo Effect: if one thing is bad about them, it's assumed everything else is bad about them as well. This may be why so many NT people hate neurodivergent people in practice.

I'm not sure it's clear where I'm coming from: I believe that neurodiverse people/aspies can be just as dismissive and unwilling to understand/accommodate NTs (as the other way around) and if they would form the majority and make a new set of social rules, NTs would be treated exactly the same way neurodiverse and disabled people are treated right now by the mainstream.

Yes,I get what you're saying. I have no bone to pick with you, or androbot for that matter. But I'm starting to get exasperated with the projection and stereotyping I see so often on this forum, especially regarding us, autistic people and feel dejected and downright depressed to see to what extent people contribute and exacerbate the problems we experience living in mainstream society due to this "us versus them" mentality and concentrating on other people's lack of understanding and tolerance while exhibiting the same attitude.

I think it's important to discuss these things and I also think NTs could have a valuable contribution to add. If it's venting, it belongs in the Haven and I wouldn't have posted there what I posted here.

Peace

Do you feel that you can see a reality that is imperceptible to neurotypicals? I do. I feel like I can see all the ugliness that they are able to dismiss. A concrete world where children and the elderly are warehoused so the workers can busy themselves, spirituality fulfilled with products and brand affiliation. Empty salutations, selfishness and broken promises. Now, I know, I am depressed and am being treated for it. But which came first, the depression or the ugliness? If people saw what I see why wouldn't they be depressed?

Anyway, the reason I ask is because I have noticed that the nt world, in their dealings with autistic people, seem to believe that it is paramount to our "treatment" that we are taught to socialize. I have never been able to figure out why this is important. But it occurs to me that it could be because they know we can see this reality and they don't like it. We expose their nakedness, the emptiness of their verbal preening and shows of solidarity.

In a way, yes, but I also feel that there's a part of reality I don't see that NTs have no problems seeing. I often think about life and how dull and depressing it is, but then I see other people who enjoy life and somehow manage to make do with very little, and I wonder how they manage to take what they have and make the best of it. Maybe it's just because ignorance is bliss, and the less one thinks about the bad in life, the better one can enjoy it. The way I think, and the way I perceive the world however, it's extremely difficult for me NOT to see the uglier side of society and how it's based around vapid consumerism, conformity, backstabbing, stepping over people to achieve your goals, one-upmanship, showing off, and hedonism.

In a way, yes, but I also feel that there's a part of reality I don't see that NTs have no problems seeing. I often think about life and how dull and depressing it is, but then I see other people who enjoy life and somehow manage to make do with very little, and I wonder how they manage to take what they have and make the best of it. Maybe it's just because ignorance is bliss, and the less one thinks about the bad in life, the better one can enjoy it. The way I think, and the way I perceive the world however, it's extremely difficult for me NOT to see the uglier side of society and how it's based around vapid consumerism, conformity, backstabbing, stepping over people to achieve your goals, one-upmanship, showing off, and hedonism.

I think a great many of them see all of it too and don't feel any better about it. They're able to take comfort in the social world to help them cope, though. That is harder for us to do.

This might actually be the best post in this thread

That's nuts!

Maybe in Tsarist circles in Russia up until 1917.

But I don't see how anybody in the US in the 20th-21st Centuries would find discussing Dostoyevsky to be inappropriate in any way.

Maybe if he hadn't said that "ignorance is bliss" thing, making us look like ret*d monkeys.

I can't talk about his intentions, but that's not how I see it - unfortunately there are things in life you're better off not knowing, as far as your mental and emotional well-being are concerned.

This might actually be the best post in this thread, not only very perceptive, but also covers well both sides of this equation... When you see so clearly the ugly side of the world and human nature, life becomes nearly unbearable without the solace of strong social and emotional connections. And maybe completely unbearable without a bit of self delusion, in the form of hope or dreams.

I don't mean to be patronising but I find it remarkable you've gained this kind of insight at your age.

Maybe if he hadn't said that "ignorance is bliss" thing, making us look like ret*d monkeys.

Now...if only Mr. Bigmouth would attend University, then I would find that we did our job.

Why do you say that? I know it's kind of a cliche expression, but it's true. Also, I wouldn't consider anyone in this thread to be a "ret*d monkey", we all have opinions and they're all equally valid.