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Can we drop the D?

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androbot01
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16 Sep 2016, 5:10 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The World Genius Directory

So I guess I'm taking issue with the validity of using a IQ tests to determine disability and for that matter, for determining intelligence:

APA: Intelligent intelligence testing Psychologists are broadening the concept of intelligence and how to test it.

This is an old article, but it brings up some interesting questions:

Quote:
... intelligence testing has also been accused of unfairly stratifying test-takers by race, gender, class and culture; of minimizing the importance of creativity, character and practical know-how; and of propagating the idea that people are born with an unchangeable endowment of intellectual potential that determines their success in life.


Quote:
... reformers have launched more fundamental criticisms, ranging from "Emotional Intelligence" (Bantam Books, 1995), by Daniel Goleman, PhD, which suggested that "EI" can matter more than IQ (see article on page 52), to the multiple intelligences theory of Harvard University psychologist Howard Gardner, PhD, and the triarchic theory of successful intelligence of APA President Robert J. Sternberg, PhD, of Yale University. These very different theories have one thing in common: the assumption that traditional theories and tests fail to capture essential aspects of intelligence.


I'm honestly not sure how useful intelligence testing is, but I don't think that a high score on an IQ test indicates genius. Genius involves more than just intelligence. If a bunch of high test scorers want to put their names on a list to indicate such, so be it. But I'm not sure how seriously one should take it.

Anyway, as I said before, intelligence and even genius can be present in someone with a mental disability. Look at John Nash ("A Beautiful Mind.") One does not preclude the other.



kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2016, 5:46 am

Look at many historical figures who made great discoveries.



johnnyh
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16 Sep 2016, 6:09 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Look at many historical figures who made great discoveries.


Who did not have autism or had it an died alone and afraid.


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ASPartOfMe
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16 Sep 2016, 6:12 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Somebody forgot to tell Johnny Ford the 2016 genius of the year.

He's not genius enough to figure out what humility means.


He is a motivational speaker so bragging is in the job desctiption.


I'm sure this guy is a nice fellow, but genius...? I'm no so sure. There was nothing on this video to indicate any advanced intelligence and there was certainly nothing motivational about it unless the viewer is supposed to get excited about his quiz taking and tolerance for those of "lesser intelligence."

But this doesn't have anything to do with disability anyway. Someone could have a genius score in a particular subject, but be helpless in other regards. I guess it comes down to what you have to offer to society balanced against what you take from it.

I guess I'm taking issue with the validity of using a IQ tests to determine disability and for that matter, for determining intelligence


The World Genius Directory


Does the World Genius directory use IQ to determine genius?. Ford won it for poetry and writing, suggesting that the directory does not go by usual STEM categories or just IQ.

Ford also has Moebius syndrome which is going to make him not sound or look like whatever a genius is supposed to sound like.

I posted his intoductory video. His TED talk is more motivational, but beware the beginning of the video repeats the bragging of the other video


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androbot01
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16 Sep 2016, 7:50 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Does the World Genius directory use IQ to determine genius?.

Quote:
The WGD is the current Who's Who of the High-IQ World!


Quote:
Ford won it for poetry and writing, suggesting that the directory does not go by usual STEM categories or just IQ.
I don't know, maybe they're using more inclusive tests.

I'm not sure why you are insisting that a high IQ score precludes disability or that a high score ensures that one is functional. Being smart doesn't necessarily mean that you are contributing to society. I guess it's what you do with your smarts that counts.

I used to have an autistic friend who made sure he reminded everyone of his IQ score, but he was beyond help socially and spent his time gaming. His disability made him unable to productively use whatever intelligence he has. I think the proof is in the pudding. One should offer something of substance, not talk about your quiz scores.



kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2016, 7:51 am

I know of a famous linguist (a very famous linguist) who has to have an attendant with him.



TomS
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16 Sep 2016, 8:16 am

naturalplastic wrote:

I have only seen it used singular. You can have *AN* ASD. Or you can have "one of the ASD's".

But even if you use to mean plural its not any more "weird" than the fact that folks on WP us "OP" to mean either "original post", or "original poster".


This is one of those things that the more I think about it the more confusing it gets. Like contemplating time or space. You correctly remind me weirdness is not weird in the english language.

'Autism Spectrum Disorder' - one of the disorders on the autism spectrum.

'Autistic' - ditto

'Autism Spectrum Disorders' - the disorders that make up this spectrum.

'Autism Spectrum' - ditto

'Autism' - ditto

Did we really gain anything more then surplus words with these new terms?



ASPartOfMe
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16 Sep 2016, 9:22 am

androbot01 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Does the World Genius directory use IQ to determine genius?.

Quote:
The WGD is the current Who's Who of the High-IQ World!


Quote:
Ford won it for poetry and writing, suggesting that the directory does not go by usual STEM categories or just IQ.
I don't know, maybe they're using more inclusive tests.

I'm not sure why you are insisting that a high IQ score precludes disability or that a high score ensures that one is functional. Being smart doesn't necessarily mean that you are contributing to society. I guess it's what you do with your smarts that counts.

I used to have an autistic friend who made sure he reminded everyone of his IQ score, but he was beyond help socially and spent his time gaming. His disability made him unable to productively use whatever intelligence he has. I think the proof is in the pudding. One should offer something of substance, not talk about your quiz scores.


I am not arguing that at all. I am reacting to johnnyh's post saying Autism precludes genius or at least autism impairments will automatically make any genius useless IRL. I used Ford as an example of why this is not true. Then you seem to be doubting Ford's genius.


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16 Sep 2016, 9:34 am

It is obvious that Autism does not preclude Genius!



androbot01
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16 Sep 2016, 10:03 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I used Ford as an example of why this is not true. Then you seem to be doubting Ford's genius.

He may be, I have no idea. But I agree that autism does not preclude genius.

Regarding the uselessness of life as a disabled person, I don't think that having a disability means one can't meaningfully contribute. But doing so does not make the disability or disorder non-existent.

Autism is an impairment to normal function.



kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2016, 10:24 am

Yep...it is....but it sometimes manifests as "not an impairment, but a difference."

Sometimes, it truly manifests as an impairment.



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16 Sep 2016, 11:21 am

The world genius directory seems to be based mostly on IQ tests, they have many links to IQ tests, and a ranked list of people who scored high on them.

Personally, I don't consider high IQ = genius. To be a genius, a person should make awesome, creative, original contributions to some intellectual field.


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nopantspolicy
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16 Sep 2016, 2:58 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
The world genius directory seems to be based mostly on IQ tests, they have many links to IQ tests, and a ranked list of people who scored high on them.

Personally, I don't consider high IQ = genius. To be a genius, a person should make awesome, creative, original contributions to some intellectual field.


I would agree with this! I am always much more impressed by people who have done incredible things than people who score highly on IQ tests. People who brag about IQ scores indicate they haven't done anything more worthwhile to brag about. :lol:



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16 Sep 2016, 3:14 pm

A mother writes: "screw your IQ tests":

http://respectfullyconnected.com/2016/0 ... it-my-son/



ASPartOfMe
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16 Sep 2016, 4:35 pm

I apologize for forgetting this is 2016 and we must assume the worst about people until proven otherwise

So apperarently
1. All of these organizations that accepted him as a member
World Genius Directory, Mensa, Triple Nine Society, Poetic Genius Society and Mensa's Exceptionally & Profoundly Gifted Special Interest Group are wrong
or
2. He is a faker and fooled all of them in addition to TEDx talks
or
3. He is a faker who lied about these memberships.
(SMH)


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androbot01
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17 Sep 2016, 8:03 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I apologize for forgetting this is 2016 and we must assume the worst about people until proven otherwise

So apperarently
1. All of these organizations that accepted him as a member
World Genius Directory, Mensa, Triple Nine Society, Poetic Genius Society and Mensa's Exceptionally & Profoundly Gifted Special Interest Group are wrong
or
2. He is a faker and fooled all of them in addition to TEDx talks
or
3. He is a faker who lied about these memberships.
(SMH)


If this is addressed to me then you are misunderstanding me. I don't think he is lying about being a member of these organizations. I am quite sure he passed all their tests legitimately. Your first point is closest to what I am saying, which is, that these groups are not measuring anything that is necessarily indicative of genius. That is, IQ tests are skewed and flawed and do not determine anything useful about the test takers. I agree with the poster above who said that if your "claim to fame" is that you do well on IQ tests then you must not have anything better to do.