Optimism and Reality: Goldfish21 Response to me

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Maybe it's not so perfectly black & white all the time and you're able to find some grey area statistical outliers to challenge the philosophy.

Maybe you're trying to read far too much into it that you've lost it's intended point, too.

The whole point of Henry Ford's statement is that if you think you cannot do something, that's the nail in the coffin before you even start. You're not likely to ever accomplish it if you don't even believe you can do it. Basically, the best way to get started on achieving something is to first believe that you can in fact achieve it. Then you can move forward and do it step by step, but with a negative defeatist attitude you're only holding yourself back from even having a really solid chance of doing something. That's the whole point of the statement.

I guarantee he never said it with the intent of debating whether some guy truly thought he could support himself yet somehow managed not to be able to after 29 years of effort. FTR I did not click and read the link, just what you wrote. Just to play devil's advocate: Sounds like he did in fact survive for 29 years.. sooo he did accomplish something in terms of supporting himself, no?

Further, maybe when Henry Ford said it he was intending for it to be applied to the typical (NT) man & not a blanket statement to cover those who's thoughts may be impaired by brain damage, defects, illness etc? In general, though, Henry Ford was an industrialist and his thoughts were focused on working men, not those too incapacitated to be of use in his factories. His philosophies would have applied well to the people who built cars for him. I'm sure if he had an employee that said he couldn't build a part that he'd tell him the first step to building that part would be to believe in his ability to learn to do so & then to go apply himself and practice until he got it right. Little Johnny apprentice machinist would go back to his work station, try, make the thing, and realize he could in fact build the part. The next time he's asked to produce a component he might think "I managed to pump out the last one, I CAN do this, too!" and that's the first step to getting it done - believing that he can in fact do it. THAT's the VERY simple point of this statement that you're trying to find flaws in for no particular useful reason.

Interesting. And is that based on writing being you're full time thing, like either actually writing, or thinking about writing etc ~40h+/wk, or as a part time evenings and weekends effort?

I ask out of curiosity as several times in my life people have told me that I should write a book - books on varying topics, or perhaps one tying them all together, and so once in a while I think hmmmm what if I ever DID write a book? Would I keep it focused to One topic? Or sort of connect them all in a bit more of a general book that wouldn't be an autobiography, but more of just a general.. these are helpful life lessons I've learned and want to convey sort of all around book? And if I ever did undertake such a project, how much time would it take? That's why I ask. Mind you, if I ever felt compelled to write something, REALLY write something, then it wouldn't matter if it took 6 months or 6 years I'd chip away at it until I felt it was done I suppose. Or work to some deadline just to complete it and put it out there vs. never be happy with the result and shelving it as a back burner project for decades lol I'm sure that happens a lot to writers. Meh, just a passing thought at the moment vs. any sort of plan, anyways.

When I write a book it goes from IDEA - OUTLINE - RESEARCH - FIRST DRAFT - SECOND DRAFT - FINAL EDIT.

When I do get the writing bug, it's a full time thing, weekends included. The research probably takes the most time especially if it needs to be accurate. My novel "Murder In Rock & Roll Heaven" required tons of research, from psychedelic drugs to Jain cosmology to particle physics to the way certain past rock stars spoke in casual conversation to reincarnation to what constitutes life itself.

KraftieKortie, I believe you said most families live paycheck to paycheck. This started me thinking. Why are people choosing to have families while living paycheck to paycheck? How is this a good idea for individuals and our society as a whole? My answer is that this is not a good idea and if one has to live paycheck to paycheck then one can't afford to have a family and raise a child let a alone save up a nest egg. Which begs the question, if being in the middle class only affords one to live paycheck to paycheck then should those in the middle class choose to have children? I say the answer is no. It is not a good idea for anyone who is not wealthy to have children if one can't provide for them and save up a nest egg for them.

People want to have kids....because they want to have them.

It would be nice if people thought more about economics when considering kids—but it frequently doesn’t work that way.

Two people fall in love. They get married. They strive for more, while making sure they take of the kids properly.

Many happy and successful children are produced by families living paycheck to paycheck. It can be hard—but most people adapt well.

Creating some sort of economic requirement for having kids with is entering dangerous territory.

You're right.



I'm not talking about a government imposed requirement. I'm talking about where it becomes a part of the culture and social veneer.

But, what I suggest is more then likely not going to happen so really I'm just blowing hot air to the wind.

It's a good suggestion to suggest that people strive to become economically solvent before having children.

I would continue to make that suggestion----but I'd do it gently. Not act like it's something that's absolutely essential, or that would be a nightmare if it wasn't implemented.

(I know you're not doing that, by the way).

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/2/4/14399742/patriots-matt-patricia-rocket-scientist-defensive-coordinator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Patricia

When Matt Patricia graduated with an Aeronautical Engineering Degree nobody would have guessed he would go on to win three Superbowl Rings! He went from a football nobody to NFL coaching elite!

Much better than working in the defense industry.

Here is another question(s) for you goldfish and others. Why isn't this same philosophy pushed upon the intellectually disabled yet pushed onto us on the spectrum with a disability that is just as debilitating? Why are all sorts of things done for them like filling out forms, provided a living, etc. Example: My younger cousin who is Kanner's Autistic with an IQ of 50 is not pushed by his family and society to do all of these things we aspies are expected to do? Another example: One person is total care and can only move his finger a little. He is a quadriplegic with other disabilities as well. He gets an exemption from this as well. Why? Why is there such an inconsistent application of this philosophy? Why do certain groups get exemptions and yet other groups do not? If it truthfully works then why doesn't our society apply it across the whole board?

Very simple: Because we have more potential.

By and large, we are not physically or intellectually disabled.

Assuming this article is accurate well but compared to emotional, moral and body intelligence IQ is actually the least important factor of all.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/keldjensen ... 179130b6d2

Truth is, our disability impacts us in the three differing areas especially the emotional aspect of it. This idea that others have that one must be intelligent so one can succeed and if one doesn't then he's not trying hard enough, has a bad attitude or is lazy is ludicrous, insane and beyond reason.

Look at moral intelligence. For me, it is difficult to keep commitments due to executive functioning issues. I have tried tricks like the calendar and writing things down. I have problems with that because it still requires me to have executive functioning to write it down on the calendar cause sometimes I forget to or half my day is spent doing the calendar. Am I truthfully not keeping my commitments or is it that my executive functioning is impaired enough to where I need support in certain areas of my life? And, let's look at honesty? Am I supposed to really avoid all white lies? If a woman asks me if she looks fat in her dress and I say yes I'm being honest yet it is still a wrong answer because it would hurt her feelings therefore I wouldn't have enough emotional intelligence?

As for body intelligence. Goldfish is very intelligent on that one. I will commend him on that.

As for exercise, I have had difficulty with exercise and sports in general. I have horrible motor coordination problems so I have to be very careful of how and where I walk. I have to be extremely deliberate or otherwise I end up like Steve Urkel like Family Matters.

Am I being to negative here? Maybe! But happy rainbows, smiling unicorns and a positive attitude is not going to help with the difficulties I have stated here and other difficulties I have in my life. Neither can I solve them because if I'm the cause and variable then how can I use my same neurology to solve my issues. It's like having a person doing surgery on himself. How does that even make sense?

Assuming this article is accurate well but compared to emotional, moral and body intelligence IQ is actually the least important factor of all.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/keldjensen ... 179130b6d2

Truth is, our disability impacts us in the three differing areas especially the emotional aspect of it. This idea that others have that one must be intelligent so one can succeed and if one doesn't then he's not trying hard enough, has a bad attitude or is lazy is ludicrous, insane and beyond reason.

Look at moral intelligence. For me, it is difficult to keep commitments due to executive functioning issues. I have tried tricks like the calendar and writing things down. I have problems with that because it still requires me to have executive functioning to write it down on the calendar cause sometimes I forget to or half my day is spent doing the calendar. Am I truthfully not keeping my commitments or is it that my executive functioning is impaired enough to where I need support in certain areas of my life? And, let's look at honesty? Am I supposed to really avoid all white lies? If a woman asks me if she looks fat in her dress and I say yes I'm being honest yet it is still a wrong answer because it would hurt her feelings therefore I wouldn't have enough emotional intelligence?

As for body intelligence. Goldfish is very intelligent on that one. I will commend him on that.

As for exercise, I have had difficulty with exercise and sports in general. I have horrible motor coordination problems so I have to be very careful of how and where I walk. I have to be extremely deliberate or otherwise I end up like Steve Urkel like Family Matters.

Am I being to negative here? Maybe! But happy rainbows, smiling unicorns and a positive attitude is not going to help with the difficulties I have stated here and other difficulties I have in my life. Neither can I solve them because if I'm the cause and variable then how can I use my same neurology to solve my issues. It's like having a person doing surgery on himself. How does that even make sense?

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 21 Dec 2017, 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm the Steve Urkel type, too.

Sometimes, in life, you have to tell "white lies." They were created so we don't constantly go to war with each other. There's a practical purpose to them. Still, I make these sorts of mistakes all the time, and get in trouble for them. At my job, I get by because I do my work well, and quickly.

Most "primitive" societies, ironically, have more social rituals than more "advanced" societies. Sometimes, you have to speak one language to your mother, and a totally different language to the mother-in-law. You have to use different verb endings for your elders and your "subordinates." Even the most "neurotypical" person not in that culture would have an Aspie's ability to navigate the nuances and subtleties of that culture. This is why anthropology is such an exacting science at times.

I'm not excellent at "executive functioning," either. I make up for it by avoiding making too many commitments. When I do have a commitment, I make sure to note in both in my mind, and somewhere else. I forget commitments occasionally.

I don't have great "body intelligence"--but I managed to adapt over many years of practice.

I do try the best that I can my friend. I don't really like to make many commitments either.

Looking at what you said as an aside it begs the question. As our society technologically advances do we as a society became more aspie then?

Oh, and I see you live Queens NY. How are the disability services up there?

I would say----the more technologically "advanced" a society is, the more one is "able" to be an Aspie (in general).

In Queens, there is disability services up the kazoo. We have about 2.5 million people in Queens County, and about 8.5 million people in the whole City of New York. About two blocks away from where I live, there is a center for "lower-functioning" autistic people. I tried to get a job there once.

It's difficult, though, to find services which don't treat you in a condescending way. "Vocational Rehabilitation" tends to "guide" you towards "lower level" jobs like retail, fast food, factory work.

I haven't made use of the services----but this is what I hear from others.

Well let's establish what the actual facts are.

a. Stats say only 17.9% of those with disablities are employed. It begs the question what is the percentage out of this group who are employed at "lower level" jobs? https://www.bls.gov/news.release/disabl.nr0.htm

b. If this article is accurate and Forbes is as reputable as it is claimed to be then one's IQ matters way less then Emotional, Moral and Body intelligence which comprise 85% of the prerequisite requirements for success.

c. Aspies have issues with what is considered in the 85% especially the emotional aspect. Let's use myself as an example with the emotional part. My wife has said that I don't have empathy and she has called me a narc. If one scouts around the internet other women who are married to AS husbands have pretty much said the same thing. Part of the moral aspect is meeting one's commitments. A number of aspies have major issues with executive functioning which causes issues with meeting commitments including myself.

d. If the data out there is accurate the percentage of unemployment for those on the spectrum is about 90% a bit less then those who have other disabilities.

e. Voc rehab in the New York area tends to shuttle disabled people to "lower level" jobs. Jonathan Mitchell has had issues with Voc Rehab in California and I've had issues with Voc Rehab here in my state. Here was Mitchell's issues. http://autismgadfly.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... eware.html

f. We have all the stories on here about the issues other autistics and aspies have had including ASS-P.

g. Temple Grandin who is an anomoly and exception came from a wealthy family so her family had more resources to get her the private help she needed and more then likely her family had influences in which Grandin was enabled to do what she is doing today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin#Family

Looking at this data here what does this mean? Does this mean that those on the spectrum with high intelligence are capable as others think we are? Facts and logic don't seem to bare this out. Yet, others want me to ignore these burning hot facts and have a can-do attitude about things. They want me to be "positive" about life and to "believe in myself." No matter what the odds are. No matter what the facts are. I'm to pretend everything is candy land and roses and to believe that one's "Attitude is more important than facts" as Charles Swindoll says.

All I have to say to these people is "Da Fukkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!! !! !! !! !! !"

I think Mystikal knows what's really going and they're .......