Why isn't it said that neurotypicals lack empathy?

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Joe90
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31 Oct 2015, 8:19 am

Social intuition - that's a much better term to use than empathy, because many people associate lack of empathy with psycopathy, murderers and lots of other awful traits some humans have in this world.


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Ganondox
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31 Oct 2015, 8:24 am

timeisdead wrote:
pandd wrote:
I do not understand the question. I've heard people who are 'neurotypical' described as lacking empathy either in a particular instance, or more generally.

My point is that the psychologists believe that we (Aspies) lack empathy, even though it more strongly applies to neurotypicals in my opinion.


Because said psychologists are NT.


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Norny
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31 Oct 2015, 8:31 am

Ganondox wrote:
timeisdead wrote:
pandd wrote:
I do not understand the question. I've heard people who are 'neurotypical' described as lacking empathy either in a particular instance, or more generally.

My point is that the psychologists believe that we (Aspies) lack empathy, even though it more strongly applies to neurotypicals in my opinion.


Because said psychologists are NT.


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ScottyD
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31 Oct 2015, 8:43 am

Because we're the ones with the disability? If a neurotypical does not "empathize" with us, because they do not read our emotion, that is not the fault of the neurotypical (because we haven't given the standard body language signals - and neither it is our fault because we are unable to do that because of our own communication disability). Neurotypicals do not lack empathy, because they empathize with (that is able to read the emotion of) other neurotypicals who use the same communication signal methods as they do. The fact that we can't - or can't very easily - at least not intuitively - read the emotions of neurotypicals makes us lack empathy (in that sense), although that does not mean that we lack feelings for others and are not able to understand, on an intellectual level, how people can be upset - indeed we feel that all too strongly and go out of our way to try not to make people upset. But we lack the ability to communicate that to others*.

This is of course a gross simplification as NTs don't always correctly read the emotions of other NTs. But, generally, they do communicate in the same way, through body language in addition to other methods, and are able to show (communicate) that empathy in a more direct way to others (or maybe indirect to us) via the communication methods (maybe body language) that they have that we lack. That, I suppose, must be what 'binds' them all together in a social group whilst I'm inadvertently left out and ignored (because I'm not giving body language signals that I am unable to give).

Then again, I don't think I can read the body language of other autistics either, just as I can't read the body language of NTs (that is, in both cases, everything except the very most overt and completely obvious - e.g. big grin means happiness, crying means sad).

If you're saying, however, that NTs lack empathy, then it is being said that NTs lack empathy! It's just not said very often.

*And therefore "lack empathy" by failing to communicate it, or appear to lack empathy by failing to do so. And, with NTs, who define these things, impressions absolutely matter and count probably almost conclusively and cannot be disregarded - e.g. first impression at a job interview maybe? - the way someone walks, the eye contact they give or do not - that hits at the subconsciousness of the NT and therefore cannot be disregarded, reason being that they are not fully aware that they have that, for want of a better word, "bias" (or "biased impression") in the first place. (I know: I'm trying to solve the issues of the world :lol: .)



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31 Oct 2015, 9:02 am

Naturella wrote:
Most people I know even have not idea what Asperger's syndrom means.


Can I ask you, as myself being a person who has Asperger's syndrome, where is your evidence for what you've said here?

Okay, I assume you are talking about most people you know that do not have Asperger's, therefore from that POV do not truly know what having Asperger's means as they do not experience having it. (Is that necessarily "lacking empathy" with people who have Asperger's though? "Empathy" involves the ability to put yourself into someone else's shoes and therefore is the ability to look at from the POV of a person other than yourself.) Even if people do not experience Asperger's (as they do not have it), they can still have an idea of what it is. (Even if they don't communicate that idea to you - or maybe they communicate a lack of their own knowledge to you?)

EDIT: Oops, I'm replying to a post from nearly 7 years ago so may or may not get any answer to it.



em_tsuj
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31 Oct 2015, 5:21 pm

timeisdead wrote:
pandd wrote:
I do not understand the question. I've heard people who are 'neurotypical' described as lacking empathy either in a particular instance, or more generally.

My point is that the psychologists believe that we (Aspies) lack empathy, even though it more strongly applies to neurotypicals in my opinion.


I agree that NT's lack empathy. However, I do not believe they lack empathy to a greater degree than people with AS. I believe the lack of empathy is a human trait. No person is good at understanding people who are significantly different than them. It takes great effort to correctly interpret where another person is coming from if that person doesn't see things the way that you do.



Joe90
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01 Nov 2015, 4:11 am

NTs have better social intuition than most Aspies, which is a type of empathy (cognitive empathy).

Emotional empathy depends on the person, unless a person has extremely 0 emotional empathy. But I'm not talking about extremes here.

Empathy isn't just about "NTs vs Aspies". It could be about anything. A person could feel and express empathy about one situation, but then not so much about another situation.

I observe a lot of NT behaviour, and even they show and feel different levels of empathy to one another. You'll be surprised.


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01 Nov 2015, 7:17 am

ScottyD wrote:
Naturella wrote:
Most people I know even have not idea what Asperger's syndrom means.


Can I ask you, as myself being a person who has Asperger's syndrome, where is your evidence for what you've said here?

Okay, I assume you are talking about most people you know that do not have Asperger's, therefore from that POV do not truly know what having Asperger's means as they do not experience having it. (Is that necessarily "lacking empathy" with people who have Asperger's though? "Empathy" involves the ability to put yourself into someone else's shoes and therefore is the ability to look at from the POV of a person other than yourself.) Even if people do not experience Asperger's (as they do not have it), they can still have an idea of what it is. (Even if they don't communicate that idea to you - or maybe they communicate a lack of their own knowledge to you?)

EDIT: Oops, I'm replying to a post from nearly 7 years ago so may or may not get any answer to it.


Regardless, most people don't know what it really is because they aren't psychologists.


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