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Do you see yourself as evil?

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ruveyn
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02 Apr 2009, 11:14 am

Zyborg wrote:
Because of my evil, I reasoned, I do not need friends or love. I am strong.

I have always identified myself with villains defeated at end of movie. Villains are detested by most. I was always detested by most. But villains are strong and often hurt good persons in film. I prefer to be able to bring harm to my enemies before being martyr.


Listen to "I am a rock, I am an Island" by Simon and Garfunkle some time.

I think you are being perverse. Do you will to do evil? Apparently not. Then why identify with that which you do not will? That doesn't mean you have to be goody two shoes either.

Perhaps you might want to read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. She was an advocate of strong ego and rational self interest. That might be something you could use.

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mechanima
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02 Apr 2009, 6:55 pm

Sora wrote:
mechanima wrote:
Question: What do you get when you cross an aspie with a psychopath?

Answer: An NT


Okay, I got to say that personally, I can't possibly agree with that. I know autistic and inherited psychopathic traits in one person and the result isn't normalcy.


...yet, in effect it was one way to summarize what you said here:

Sora wrote:
How do you mean that? A certain degree of the ability to manipulate is what helps people being normal and efficient in work and social relationships.

And if you multiply that with a indefinite number and add that ability to the social impairment in autism, there's the possibility that this works out really positive for the person in question. I don't doubt it can turn out worse or have no particular effect on their autistic condition in some cases, but it can also turn out to be fairly positive by lessening the impact the autistic symptoms have on your life. Same goes for lying.


So, loosely, you sorta DID say that personally.


Sora wrote:
It would feel a little odd to say it can't be when it's right in my face which is why I cannot agree with you on this.

Also, most definite psychopaths aren't going to be as mad as to get diagnosed as having APD/DPD (and have their life destroyed) and so I also cannot see how a lack of documented cases means there's no co-morbidity.


Basically, there are too many similarities between the two conditions for co-morbidity, the differences are so limited (but significant) that if Aspie traits appear in a psychopath you have a misdiagnosed Aspie and if Psychopathic traits appear in and Aspie you have a misdiagnosed Psychopath. It's that close...

Sorry.

M.



Sora
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03 Apr 2009, 8:37 am

mechanima wrote:
Sora wrote:
How do you mean that? A certain degree of the ability to manipulate is what helps people being normal and efficient in work and social relationships.

And if you multiply that with a indefinite number and add that ability to the social impairment in autism, there's the possibility that this works out really positive for the person in question. I don't doubt it can turn out worse or have no particular effect on their autistic condition in some cases, but it can also turn out to be fairly positive by lessening the impact the autistic symptoms have on your life. Same goes for lying.


So, loosely, you sorta DID say that personally.


I said they might lesson the impact of the autistic symptoms, but not lessening the impairments themselves.

I'm not sure if there's any difference at all for many on the spectrum except a few, but for me the difference between impairment and presentation is quite significant. Other autistic people who are less impaired/more able than me do far worse. They present more autistic than me, but they're actually less autistic than me.

I took you saying that ASD+psychopaths makes an NT as that such a person does not just fake NT, but that they are typical and within the boundaries of what's defined as normal with their weaknesses and strengths.

Sora wrote:
Basically, there are too many similarities between the two conditions for co-morbidity, the differences are so limited (but significant) that if Aspie traits appear in a psychopath you have a misdiagnosed Aspie and if Psychopathic traits appear in and Aspie you have a misdiagnosed Psychopath.


I'm trying to wrap my mind around that metaphorically. I'm thinking really concrete, hope that helps me. Say you got somebody who fits all characteristics of autism - language issues, inability to read and show non-verbal cues, impaired social reciprocity, repetitive behaviours, routines, mannerisms, adaptive skills delay but who also has the lack of guilt, remorse, compulsive lying, ruthless and manipulative nature, need for stimulation, impaired executive function (that can be one of autism too, ok), ability to charm others, inability to relate emotionally, impulsive and irresponsible. Would you think they're autistic or psychopathic?


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sunshower
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03 Apr 2009, 10:22 am

I use my logic for the forces of good, not evil.


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mechanima
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03 Apr 2009, 12:49 pm

Sora wrote:
I'm trying to wrap my mind around that metaphorically. I'm thinking really concrete, hope that helps me. Say you got somebody who fits all characteristics of autism - language issues, inability to read and show non-verbal cues, impaired social reciprocity, repetitive behaviours, routines, mannerisms, adaptive skills delay but who also has the lack of guilt, remorse, compulsive lying, ruthless and manipulative nature, need for stimulation, impaired executive function (that can be one of autism too, ok), ability to charm others, inability to relate emotionally, impulsive and irresponsible. Would you think they're autistic or psychopathic?


Please tell me you knew the answer when you asked the question?

Because what you have there is a psychopath. (see pm)



Ambivalence
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03 Apr 2009, 1:24 pm

"When I'm drinking my 'Bonaparte shandy',
Eating more than enough apple pie,
I can turn on my screen,
To see real human beings,
Starve to death,
Right in front of my eyes."


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03 Apr 2009, 1:44 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Listen to "I am a rock, I am an Island" by Simon and Garfunkle some time.

ruveyn


Hmmm....aspie pattern alert. Third Simon and Garfunkel reference in less than 24 hours.

I referenced "Mrs. Robinson" just this AM and I heard a "Mother and Child Reunion" reference last night (a pun) - though technically that's just Simon.

:chin: What does it portend?


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