Intuitive Social Situations Demystified

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seconded.

This explanation makes a lot of sense, particularly on the subject of how we learn. I remember through much of my life, I often wondered why things are not explained so well, and why people expected me just to know how to do things without actually being taught them. I always thought there should be more guidance; and I noticed this had nothing to do with my parents or my upbringing, this was everybody, teachers, etc. I guess we just learn differently, not intuitively but logically.

I´ve also been thinking lately about how these intuitive social situations must be based mostly on emotional exchanges, which explains a few more things, like why people use emotional mind games to get children to learn to do things, rather than explaining it to the child logically. It also explains why I flounder in certain social situations, like singles events, where the interactions have a much stronger intuitive/emotional basis. It´s interesting...I think I´ve had a small epiphany...some things about the world are starting to make more sense lately...

Oh, sorry, I was referring to some other point-walker videos I've seen. I can try to find them, if you're interested.



I like it.



"Oh my god, do you know there are some people who actually think logically about stuff? How do they live???"

Thirded and/or fourthed...

fifthed ! !! !! !! !! !

I'm joining in this thread late and slowly trying to catch up. I got to page 2 and found some really good posts that really struck me.

I'm really saddened about the having to give up some of what people may call special traits in order to fit in better, but it sounds realistic. You can't focus on one without it hurting the other and if you focus on both, then it drops one to level the other. One thing I am coming to realize and it's a painful realization, just how important social skills are. Social skills are considered above all abilities and raw talent... If one is extrememly gifted but lacks charisma, then chances of success are very low. But if one is gifted socially and has that gift, then they can go further than by raw talent alone. This appears to be true even if the one with the social charisma may not be as talented as someone who may be more talented but lack those people skills.

It's depressing. I dislike it, but it seems the way the system is set up. Also I find informing people I have that limitation doesn't change much. People see it either as an excuse or as a way to drop one's status down a notch.


I've been on different forum communities trying to relate with non autistic people, and I find it ironic, even on the internet, NT's seem to know and spot things off about me just from words alone. I have a great ability to tick people off. I tick them off by typing and doing things that wouldn't normally bother me if they were said (or if it did bother me, maybe not as much), but to them omg I did something terrible and really upset them.

It's been quite a learning lesson. I envy people who seem to seem to draw people like magnets, but when I do something I believe to be just as good, I'm left ignored. What gives? It seems I am lacking something even on the internet level when relating/communicating with people.

I've joined late too, I really identify with MJIthewriter.

I seem to lack that intuition, and that's been used against me mercilessly. (I'm not allowed to swear on here so ) I find I always have to be on guard and have blanket rules because I can't seem to get a handle on when a person has an ulterior motive or is being dishonest.

Also I realise innocent things I've said may not sound that way after the fact. I'll wake up the next day, and it'll hit me. Oh no! I prefer chatrooms, where you can think about your replies and edit.

Yes, Ass Burgers. Cat syndrome appeals. Or Spade Syndrome (Calling a Spade a Spade, for our literal ones, or the detective Sam Spade, unsentimental and always analysing clues)

MJThewriter - I relate to the slight kinks in your writing on forums or email that may put people off.
I was told a year ago my emails were longwinded and old-fashioned and formal. I am frequently told i say too much and disclose too much and this is very much related to ToM for me. I have no idea how my words will be interpreted.
I have been told I am arrogant, I am 'up myself" because i do not exhibit a kind of "feigned social humility' - a way of behaving that escapes me. And beleive me, i have tried to employ this "strategy' but have failed dismally so have returned to the eden state of not even bothering.

What I mean is this. Here is an example.
If someone does something well or wins something for an achievement or kicks a metaphorical goal, there is a whole interplay of subtle communications that people understand about communicating this information in a way that is underhand, manipulative, indirect and yet publicizing and schmoozy AND successful. Sometimes, it is not what you say BUT HOW YOU SAY IT that counts.

here is an example:

When I do something great or win something for an achievement or kick a metaphorical goal, there is - in my case - none of this interplay and subtle communicating, because i do not know how to do it.
So what I do is this:

Other person: How are things? what has been happening in your life of late?

answer (by ASD me) : Oh, I have been painting and reading up on Von Guerard (or some other artist.) I have been working on a series of works that....(insert paragraph of detailed information.) I also got into 4 finals competitions for my work and won such and such a prize and I am really happy about it. it is so good and i am very, very chuffed and i won some money and it makes things all worthwhile.

questioner: oh...really. i have to go.

Me: oh, ok. (starts worrrying to myself - have i said the wrong thing? oh..oh. what have i done? oh dear...i shouldn't speak at all. What did that look she gave to her friend over there mean? they were looking at each other. oh no....)

Questioner and questioner's friend move towards each other whisper very quietly, leave and mutter more loudly as they depart: God, she is so up herself and SO arrogant and such a tosser.....Why does she have to go on and on and on?

I feel two inches high and know enough in this instance to know I have broken THE SECRET CODE OF COMMUNICATIONS EXCHANGE once again. I do not know why exactly and still to this day struggle to understand as i am only being honest and enthusiastic about what i love. And only later, after analyzing and discussing the scenario with a third party, am told I lack subtlety and employ my usual ASD bluntness at high volume, which others misread as arrogance and gaucheness.

Now the point is, the questioner may have informed me a few minutes before of her achievements, but said it in such a way that has none of the volume, detail and thoroughness of what I describe, but gets just a much info about "recent successes" across.
The key is - I do this stuff in a way that grates people and is misunderstood. I am just being honest and happily and childishly answering the question without giving anything else any other thought. When it comes to things like this on my special interest, I am like a kid in a candy store.

And so...I am still mystified, still clueless and still unable to manage this kind of subtlety in my life in a way that is schmoozy and undercover.

Well, at least you all know how to logically analyze such social situations ...

.....
...
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Now if I were the other person talking to you millie, I would smile, say "That's cool," hopefully remember to congratulate you, happily learn about Von Guerard, maybe ask you how your style is like Von Guerard's and can I see some of your recent work, maybe apply Von Guerard's style to my own interest of photography, and likely add something about how my photography's been lately. But of course, I'm an Aspie.

In normal situations, what I've learned is that when people ask you how you are, it's more like a social demand that you WILL LISTEN to how THEY are, because they really don't much care how you are unless you're a close friend, and even then they have all kinds of stuff going on in their own lives and very little room left over in their brains/hearts to take in any of your meaningful stuff on top of theirs, unless you make it worth their while. On top of this, you are expected to AGREE with the other person.

Example: (which may be flawed due to my own Aspie perspective)

Other Person: "How are things? what has been happening in your life of late?"

Aspie Me Trying to Answer in an NT Mode: "Okay. Not much, how about you?"

Other Person: "Well, this winter weather is absolutely HORRIBLE! Too much cold and snow. Too bad we all can't live on a beach in sunny Florida!" * huge smile *

Aspie Me Being Honest: "Actually, I love winter. See, I'm a landscape/nature photographer and specialize in snow scenes. They say "the worse the weather, the better the pictures."

Other Person: "Oh...really. i have to go."

Alternate Realities: Now if on the other hand I had smiled and said, "Yeah, I totally agree, I HATE winter! How are you handling it?" or maybe if I had said, "Well personally I prefer winter but I can see how the sunny beach in Florida sounds like a great idea, have you ever gone there before?" it's a good bet the other person would have kept talking to me and may have shown interest in becoming friends.

Anyways ... discussing art is cool by me!

~~ the phoenix

What Aspies don't understand is that it's not that we lack social skills but that our behavior, a result of a different functioning of the brain, rubs NTs the wrong way.

millie, interesting reply. Often I am told I think too much. I'm aware I type too long but not sure how to shorten it.

One thing I learned the hard way, when someone with autism talks, most often they talk about what interests them and what they intend to say.

More often than not an NT is probably looking for the motive behind what is being said. Why are you talking about Von Guerard in great detail? To you, you're just answering the question. To the person, there could be a few reasons. One, perhaps they felt jealous and threatened. Maybe to them it came across as bragging and upstaging them (if they hadn’t had any recent achievements to that level). These things you wouldn't know and I don't even believe the other person knows.

It could also be the person all of a sudden felt overwhelmed. I'm not familiar with Von Guerard. I'd shut up and try to listen as long as I could stand. It must be a human thing to feel painfully awkward to be stuck in a conversation without anything to say to feel included. Being lost for words isn't a pleasant feeling.
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Here are a few other things I learned:

When I got into a conflict, my natural response is to go over and describe the events that occurred like it's a history book. Though I felt that was enough, it wasn't. NT's need to know how you are feeling in order to understand why you are upset. I got into a conflict with a few people on a forum. In a fit of desperateness and in a terrible meltdown, I made a "simple" pm stating I feel overwhelmed, need to calm my nerves before I could fully read their message. I felt like the person was attacking me and I said that.

To my surprise it helped. The person seemed a bit more sympathetic. That's something I will have to keep in mind for future conflicts. There are likely limits, but I reached an epiphany that moment. Sometimes it helps to say something like, "I am upset right now. I feel like this is a personal attack." and not go into detail over why you may feel this way. Listing examples does not help.

When listing events and examples, NT's will read in their own emotions, because with some things that we may do by accident or with different intentions may not mean the same for them.
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Example: I do TMI a lot. I speak in public just about the same way I would privately. I feel with my life, nothing is really private. Therefore it's very painfully easy for me to slip too much stuff out in the open. My usual guideline was if I feel comfortable sharing...but I'm learning that isn't the same. I have to keep in mind whether the other people would feel comfortable reading it. It's theory of mind all over again. I'd have to imagine if I were someone else sharing this would I share it? Of course, because I assume everyone is like me. See...that's where I have a limitation to work around....

^ Yes. all very true.
And i have actually given up trying to change it now. I just stick to myself more than ever and feel pretty down and wounded by the world at present. Another low phase. it happens. It happens because i do not fit and cannot fit and am too tired to even bother trying. oh well.

Let me hazard a translation

NT: "How are things?"

Translations: 1. "How are you doing? I really want to know." 2. "I'm just following the social rule that says I should ask how you are. I don't really care"

NT: "what has been happening in your life of late?"

Translation: "Give me a brief summary of what you've been doing."

Your mistake in the second question was going into great detail. You don't have to be NT to not want to hear this.

As the first translations indicate, NTs can be very hard to read. I had a conversation that started off as:

NT: "How are you?"

Me: "OK"

NT: "Just OK?"

Now, what am I supposed to say here? "I'm overjoyed to see you, even though I have absolutely no recollection of you from high school." I can handle the ritual, but when someone departs from it, I am lost. I have no idea what cue I was to use to know that a longer answer was wanted. I'm not going lose any sleep over this one.

Similar case, when my junior high school had its last graduation:

Student reporter with a microphone: "How are you?"

Me: "Fine."

SR: "Fine? What am going to do with that?"

If he had asked me a specific question like "What do feel about this graduation?", I would have been able to provide a more specific answer.

I didn't use this ritual because it was so insincere. I was taught to use it by a girlfriend in whose culture this was more than an empty ritual.

When someone asks how I am, I often say "okay". People have often said "just okay?" And I say, "yeah, just okay". That usually ends the conversation. You could try that, if you want.

In the 2nd case, with your graduation, that was bizarre, as "fine" is the usual, texted response to that question. Don´t know what that person was looking for.

The examples make me chuckle this morning because there is this vast myriad of possibilities we have to sift through, whereas other people tend to just grasp it and cue in to the social mores and the flow.

If someone asks me how i am, I can just say "fine thank you."
the issue is this is exhausting,. I have o restrain myself or harness my mental energies so the details do not come spilling out. There is all this information in my brain, and there is the tendency to monologue and there is the mental meandering. it takes EFFORT AND INCREDIBLE RESTRAINT to be glib, smooth, crisp, succinct and naff!