So we're unpleasant, period?

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Looking at the characteristics of Aspies (eg, the below I found on the web), I tell myself if I'm so unpleasant and it's neurological so I can never change enough, then why bother trying to relate to people or keep a job? If I myself met a person with the below traits, and I was an NT, I sure wouldn't like them either as a friend, a colleague, a family member or a subordinate. Lately, as I've gained more awareness of all that being autistic means in terms of behaviors obnoxious to NTs, even if someone approaches me trying to strike a conversation I don't invest in it, because I know I'll soon be found too annoying to be friends with anyway.

So I was born with a neurology that makes me annoying and unpleasant to others. What a neurology to have! What a way to live one's life!

And what is it with "raising awareness"? If you're annoying and unpleasant, what are we trying to raise? People have a right to choose pleasant people to surround them. What's the case for raising awareness?

Please disregard my inconsistent bold type in the text, it's not relevant.

Difficulty in accepting criticism or correction
Difficulty in offering correction or criticism without appearing harsh, pedantic or insensitive
Difficulty in perceiving and applying unwritten social rules or protocols
"Immature" manners
Failure to distinguish between private and public personal care habits: i.e., brushing, public attention to skin problems, nose picking, teeth picking, ear canal cleaning, clothing arrangement
Naïve trust in others
Shyness
Low or no conversational participation in group meetings or conferences Constant anxiety about performance and acceptance, despite recognition and commendation
Scrupulous honesty, often expressed in an apparently disarming or inappropriate manner or setting
Bluntness in emotional expression
"Flat affect"
Discomfort manipulating or "playing games" with others
Unmodulated reaction in being manipulated, patronized, or "handled" by others
Low to medium level of paranoia
Low to no apparent sense of humor; bizarre sense of humor (often stemming from a "private" internal thread of humor being inserted in public conversation without preparation or warming others up to the reason for the "punchline")
Difficulty with reciprocal displays of pleasantries and greetings
Problems expressing empathy or comfort to/with others: sadness, condolence, congratulations, etc.
Pouting,, ruminating, fixating on bad experiences with people or events for an inordinate length of time
Difficulty with adopting a social mask to obscure real feelings, moods, reactions
Using social masks inappropriately (you are "xv" while everyone else is ????)
Abrupt and strong expression of likes and dislikes
Rigid adherence to rules and social conventions where flexibility is desirable
Apparent absence of relaxation, recreational, or "time out" activities
"Serious" all the time
Known for single-mindedness
Flash temper
Tantrums
Excessive talk
Difficulty in forming friendships and intimate relationships; difficulty in distinguishing between acquaintance and friendship Social isolation and intense concern for privacy
Limited clothing preference; discomfort with formal attire or uniforms
Preference for bland or bare environments in living arrangements
Difficulty judging others’ personal space
Limited by intensely pursued interests
Often perceived as "being in their own world"
Definitely Agree Slightly Agree Slightly Disagree Strongly Disagree Physical Manifestations
Strong sensory sensitivities: touch and tactile sensations, sounds, lighting and colors, odors, taste
Clumsiness
Balance difficulties
[b]Difficulty in judging distances, height, depth
Difficulty in recognizing others’ faces (prosopagnosia)
Stims (self-stimulatory behavior serving to reduce anxiety, stress, or to express pleasure)
Self-injurious or disfiguring behaviors
Nail-biting
Unusual gait, stance, posture
Gross or fine motor coordination problems
Low apparent sexual interest
Depression
Anxiety
Sleep difficulties
Verbosity
Difficulty expressing anger (excessive or "bottled up") [/b] Flat or monotone vocal expression; limited range of inflection
Difficulty with initiating or maintaining eye contact
Elevated voice volume during periods of stress and frustration
Strong food preferences and aversions
Unusual and rigidly adhered to eating behaviors
Bad or unusual personal hygiene
Morbid (shared, dual, multiple) Diagnostic Conditions
Learning Disability
Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD)
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD)
Hyperlexia
Depression
Anxiety
Non-verbal Learning Disorder (NVLD)
Hypertension
Semantic Pragmatic Language Disorder
Tourette’s Syndrome
Dysthymia
Cognitive Characteristics

Susceptibility to distraction
Difficulty in expressing emotions
Resistance to or failure to respond to talk therapy
Mental shutdown response to conflicting demands and multi-tasking
Generalized confusion during periods of stress
Low understanding of the reciprocal rules of conversation: interrupting, dominating, minimum participation, difficult in shifting topics, problem with initiating or terminating conversation, subject perseveration
Insensitivity to the non-verbal cues of others (stance, posture, facial expressions)
Perseveration best characterized by the term "bulldog tenacity"
Literal interpretation of instructions (failure to read between the lines)
Interpreting words and phrases literally (problem with colloquialisms, cliches, neologism, turns of phrase, common humorous expressions)
Preference for visually oriented instruction and training
Dependence on step-by-step learning procedures (disorientation occurs when a step is assumed, deleted, or otherwise overlooked in instruction)
Difficulty in generalizing
Preference for repetitive, often simple routines
Difficulty in understanding rules for games of social entertainment
Missing or misconstruing others’ agendas, priorities, preferences
Impulsiveness
Compelling need to finish one task completely before starting another
Rigid adherence to rules and routines
Difficulty in interpreting meaning to others’ activities; difficulty in drawing relationships between an activity or event and ideas
Exquisite attention to detail, principally visual, or details which can be visualized ("Thinking in Pictures") or cognitive details (often those learned by rote)
Concrete thinking
Distractibility due to focus on external or internal sensations, thoughts, and/or sensory input (appearing to be in a world of one’s own or day-dreaming)
Difficulty in assessing relative importance of details (an aspect of the trees/forest problem)
Poor judgment of when a task is finished (often attributable to perfectionism or an apparent unwillingness to follow differential standards for quality)
Difficulty in imagining others’ thoughts in a similar or identical event or circumstance that are different from one’s own ("Theory of Mind" issues)
Difficulty with organizing and sequencing (planning and execution; successful performance of tasks in a logical, functional order)
Difficulty in assessing cause and effect relationships (behaviors and consequences)
An apparent lack of "common sense"
Relaxation techniques and developing recreational "release" interest may require formal instruction
Rage, tantrum, shutdown, self-isolating reactions appearing "out of nowhere"
Substantial hidden self-anger, anger towards others, and resentment
Difficulty in estimating time to complete tasks
Difficulty in learning self-monitoring techniques
Disinclination to produce expected results in an orthodox manner
Psychometric testing shows great deviance between verbal and performance results
Extreme reaction to changes in routine, surroundings, people
Stilted, pedantic conversational style ("The Professor")
Work Characteristics
Many of the manifestations found in the categories above can immediately translate into work behaviors or preferences. Here are some additional ones:
Difficulty with "teamwork"
Deliberate withholding of peak performance due to belief that one’s best efforts may remain unrecognized, unrewarded, or appropriated by others
Intense pride in expertise or performance, often perceived by others as "flouting behavior"
Sarcasm, negativism, criticism
Difficulty in accepting compliments, often responding with quizzical or self-deprecatory language
Tendency to "lose it" during sensory overload, multitask demands, or when contradictory and confusing priorities have been set
Difficult in starting project
Discomfort with competition, out of scale reactions to losing
Low motivation to perform tasks of no immediate personal interest
Oversight or forgetting of tasks without formal reminders such as lists or schedules Great concern about order and appearance of personal work area
Slow performance
Perfectionism
Difficult with unstructured time
Reluctance to ask for help or seek comfort
Excessive questions
Low sensitivity to risks in the environment to self and/or others
Difficulty with writing and reports
Reliance on internal speech process to "talk" oneself through a task or procedure
Stress, frustration and anger reaction to interruptions
Difficulty in negotiating either in conflict situations or as a self-advocate
Very low level of assertiveness
Reluctance to accept positions of authority or supervision
Strong desire to coach or mentor newcomers
Difficulty in handling relationships with authority figures
Often viewed as vulnerable or less able to resist harassment and badgering by others
Punctual and conscientious
Avoids socializing, "hanging out," or small talk on and off the job

I think you're right up to a point -- so much easier just to hang out with Aspies.

But that's too simplistic.

Tony Attwood put together a set of diagnostic criteria based on the POSITVES of having Aspergers, e.g. tendency to be honest, loyal, logical, etc. I don't remember where I saw it. The thing is, to be diagnosed with a disorder, you must display sufficient NEGATIVE traits, or it wouldn't be a disorder. Hence the long list of traits perceived as negative by neurotypicals. And most Aspies display a number of those, but not all of them.

Speaking for myself, I have found that the easiest non-autistics to befriend are people who are different, strange, odd, eccentric or doggedly individualistic for other reasons, because they are more open-minded to differentness. I have many friends. They don't find me unpleasant. I am sure there are other people who consider me a bit mad, and who greet me politely but don't care to know me further.

I can socialise for extended periods with my friends. But to be honest, I don't like hanging out with more "ordinary" people for too long in a social environment, because in order to fit in with them, I would have to pretend (yes, I know how to act NT), and I don't care to do that. There are a few mainstrem, ordinary people who are willing to accept (and actually LIKE) me just as I am and I really like that in them, because it is rare.

I am a Project Management lecturer and sometimes I must teach a course to adults for a whole week and get to know the participants, and I get almost NO negative comments on the feedback forms which participants fill in after a course. They perceive me as caring about their learning, and they say I am knowledgeable and explain things well with relevant examples. I allow some of my quirkiness to come through in my lecturing style. I guess I must be pleasant enough for neurotypical tastes.

PS: I am lively, and I smile a lot, sometimes simply as an act of "giving", because I love the effect which smiling produces in other people. I think that makes an enormous difference to how I am perceived.

Wow!
i fit most of these, although my anger almost never makes it outside, it just sits and stews in my brain.
No wonder we tend to have few friends, often even I don't like myself!

I am in shock. Whoever wrote that described me down to the last detail. I have a stalker!! !!



But seriously, wow. I actually got a real positive feeling from reading that list, because (apart from the things I already knew were related to AS), it also included so many of my personal traits that frustrate me that I never realized might be related to AS.

I related to every line written except for about 3 or 4 of them.

It's possible to make a list of mostly negative-sounding traits of any group, really. Many of those items could be reversed and framed in a negative way to describe the more socially able (and many of the above traits greatly overlap with non-autistics anyway).

For example: "Avoids socializing, 'hanging out,' or small talk on and off the job "

could become

"Has difficulty refraining from socializing, 'hanging out,' or small talk on and off the job."

By some mysterious powers known only to the tireless and forever inquiring Greentea, a most thorough and exact biography of yours truly has finally been written. Thank you Greentea.

bravo.

A nice finish to a rather forlorn and wet winter's day (spent on couch moping about my inability to actually get on and cope with people-objects face to face and beyond the realm of the internet.)

Yup, I annoy people being myself, even though my intentions are good.

Just get yourself a thesaurus and look up some positive synonym's of the negative traits you have listed. Nothing in inherrantly negative, it's just the way we choose to veiw things.

I fit most of these too but I think the key word is difficulty. That implies a matter of degree. If you Google Tony Attwood and "discovery criteria" you can see the other perspective Alphabetania mentioned. I haven't learned how to post a link yet.

Judging by the responses so far, I think this is a pretty accurate list.

But don't worry too much Greentea, Michjo is right; these traits can be both positive and negative. We all love you Greentea, so you can't be all that bad.

sunshower, ditto to every word you said in your first post.

I feel relief, because all my shameful defects now turn out to be not my fault.

On the other hand, sounds like I have only unpleasantness and annoyance to bring to average, normal people. And there's a lot that a tolerant person will have to put up with in me to enjoy the positives. So there, I'm not trying to get closer to anyone anymore. Their win, and also their loss. Everyone may be more pleasant than me, but it'll be a rare one that's as honest and loyal and caring as me.

millie, I didn't want to post a link because a parallel thread is running with 2 of these traits a day and I didn't want to spoil it. But I think I've spoilt it anyway. I just couldn't resist sharing my pain and relief at this list. If you google any sentence in the text, you'll reach a few links.

it was a nice finish to my day. I enjoyed reading the list. i was not being sarcastic. The list made me chuckle with identification.
I also read greentea and sunshower's posts and really needed to know this evening, that others experience things in the same way as i do.

Sometimes I cannot really sense any of you there. I know enough banter to get by, but i never feel connected to anyone - ever, really.
I do get lonely. I am one of those people with an ASD who does get lonely - prefers to be alone - but does get lonely and does not even bother with daily connection with people face to face because it is too hard and confusing. I feel like crap and I do find it hard to go on, sometimes. oh well.

Its interesting in that I seem rto only have sensory issues and stims now... Maybe I haven't had enough social exposure lately to realise my traits I still have, maybe I have outgrown most of them, I don't know... At one point though, most of that list did apply to me.

Disinclination to produce expected results in an orthodox manner

I love this one.

You're right, you're indeed not connected. A middle-aged female who has a degree of Autism, driving her scruffy, old car along the far-away Mediterrenean Coast in some city in the Middle East, doing errands to get unemployment benefits and worrying whether the show has already been and whether you sold and how it went and how you're feeling and wondering if it'd be Ok to ask you or not - is too electronic and unreal to be worthy of being called a connection. [/wake-up call]

Some of these I have never seen before. While reading them I had quite a laugh as many could be written on my tombstone, assuming it was the height of a multistory building. To relate to your idea that we are obnoxious, I have concluded that I might be an "acquired taste".