Secrets to Successful Flirting? A question...

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While reading the article, I was impressed by the number of hoops that the aspie guy and girl have to jump through in order to be appealing and attractive to the NT's they are interested in. I was left with this question:

It seems like an awful lot of work and strain. I could probably manage to maintain it for a few hours, and with practice, maybe for longer periods of time. What comes after that? When the NT facade breaks down and I'm back to my aspie self, stimming and having to force myself to make eye contact, isn't my newly acquired NT girlfriend or boyfriend going to feel a bit duped? Worse, what if they were only in love with the facade and don't like me except when I act that way? Or, they might say that if I tried hard enough, I could be normal, that I was when they met me (!).

Do you think this is a likelihood or am I just being pessimistic? Looking at it another way, I'd feel kind of perturbed if someone trained themselves to act like an aspie in order to attract me...and then I discovered that they were NT! The deceit!!

It's got to be a "game versus candle thing"

Why would I bother to wear an Armani suit to impress the sort of person who'd be impressed by an Armani suit?

But in a business environment that might be necessary. The rules of the game just to get a hearing without two strikes against you.

People do it with CV's too. I tend to be more honest. If it's the job for me, it's *me* they want, not some inflated image I would then feel under pressure to live up to.
(or is that one where everyone is expected to lie? Me on my CV, they, that they believe it?)

The mating game, now that's different again. Are you aiming for a nice night, a life mate, or just an "other" around so you can appear "normal"? The objective may define the tactics.

Yeah, here's the thing. Yes it's a little bit of trickery, but in all honesty, if they won't be patient and learn to know the real you, then they aren't worth your time. You shouldn't have to fight to keep a boyfriend/girlfriend, because relationships are supposed to be quite stress free.

I think you raise some very interresting points.

First of all;
i think that the 'hoop act' is necessary.
The problem is that all these things involved with flirting, and courtship are instinctaul behaviors for NT people. For us it is not. Most of the subtle nuances of flirting, in fact, are non-verbal communication signals.
For us, we need to think of it as a game. If you wish to win (whatever that means for you), then you are forced to play. If you want to be involved in an intimate relationship, you must actively involve yourself in flirting. This is the first stage in the developement of an intimate relationship.
Or, you can spend the next several years of your life, abandoming caution, and throwing yourself in the mix. That would likely lead to negative results. Courtship tends to be a use and abuse proposition. You can spend the nxt several years of your life, learning as much as you can on the subject. Observing others, asking questions, reading up on the subject, and some personal tests of your own.
Bottom line; it is not a natural instinct for AS Folk, and i am going to be so bold as to say that that is our #1 pitfall. An obsticle which we must overcome, if we choose.

I like to think of the stages which lead to a loving, intimate relationship fo AS People is akin to making a customer service phone call.
You dial the number. The automated voice comes on and gives you menu options. Then you must decide which option to take. And these options usually lead you to more and more options. Finally after navigating the maze of ambiguous options, you get to talk to a real life person. And often, they don't even have the answer your looking for.
I cannot tell you how many times i have picked the wrong option, in the initial menu, and have wasted alot of time, only to start over again.
If you want results, you have to try. And then try somemore. What is important to remember is with each experience you learn, and learn not to repeat the same mistakes again.


On the issue of mistrust.
I have a real struggle with that issue myself. It seems like a catch-22. If you want the relationship then you have to act. If you are acting then you aren't giving a clear picture of your true self. In essence, you are falsely advertising. Then once your product has been sold, and the box is opened, the buyer will want a refund.

That is exactly what the situation is; in our black and white perception.

Let me use my situation for an example.
I am married, and my wife is a wonderful NT lady. While the stages of courtship were underway, i felt as if i had gotten a great bargain for my purchase price. She was perfect for me, and a great person.
We got married, and slowly over time, i began to feel as if i was sold a lie. She still is a great person and i respect her deeply. But there were many instances where, when we were courting, she showed me a different version than the one i married.
What has to be done, then, is to concentrate on the positive aspects and work on accepting the negative aspects. You cannot change them; people are who they are, like it or not.

What i learned is that NT people are liars in the courting game as well. It seems to be written somewhere in the rules that it is ok to do so. So in answering your question about selling a false bill of goods; don't worry, its totally acceptable, and just part of the game.


One final note.
Do everything you can do in an effort to be honest with yourself. Too often people overlook major faults in their companion since they figure that an imperfect mate is better than being alone.
This is false.
Because if you do this (just for companionship), it will not work out in the end. Then, you will be alone anyway, and also a little jaded. Then the next relationship that you enter into, you will carry baggage from the other, and it will not be fair for the new person to help you carry that load.

I cannot say this enough.
Get to know yourself first. What you want, what you can accept, and what you cannot tolerate.
Make all your decissions based upon your own personal biases. Always, be true to yourself. Even when you must play by NT rules.


SB²

No, I think this is a good point to bring up. You are voicing the #1 concern expressed to me about my "Secrets of ...." articles.

First, yes: if you use body language tools to attempt being a different person, then there is going to be disillusionment, stress, and probably disappointment. That happens to NTs when they try to act a part all the time, too.

But it doesn't have to be that way. I use body language to say to people the things I really mean. I say, "I think you're attractive," "I'm interested in what you're saying," or "I'm competent at what I do." As I get to know a young lady better, I ease her in to my differences and tell her the truth: I turn my skills on and off, and I'm not always exactly as she first saw me. The results are mixed. Sometimes, the woman likes me better, because she realizes I've got a whole other dimesion to me (kind of intriguing). Other times, she says, "I can't handle that you're not running your mouth constantly," and we part ways.

Body language is like any other language. For example:

I dated a girl a while back from France. She was beautiful, cultured, funny, had a killer accent ... and spoke very little English. We made an effort to communicate. I learned some French, and she worked on her English. After a while, we realized we didn't want to keep seeing each other. We had both tried to be communicative, but we agreed it wasn't worth it. Body language is the same way. You use it to meet people and begin communication. If that blossoms, great. If not, at least you tried.

This "beginning communication" is important. People are programmed to be turned off when someone doesn't make the requisite motions at a first meeting. Very few humans are aware enough to note the impulse and restrain it. Among the rest, you either adapt or run the risk of turing away a goodly number of people who might have been good friends/partners had they gotten to know you better.

In sum, I would say, don't give this question more thought than it deserves, particularly before you've worked some on body language. NTs do some acting out front, too. When they go out on a date, they wear their best clothes, show their best selves, and don't usually tell the WHOLE truth. As they get to know each other, the complete person emerges. They either find that they really like each other or not, and life goes on.

you have articles?

That is an unbelievably awesome analogy. I had to laugh at it.

There's a reason I stopped caring about all these articles and stuff; if the person isn't attracted to regular Ben, what's the point of making a fake one and then disappointing her when I get tired and start acting like myself?

That's what I've been doing wrong all this time, I need to outsource myself to India!

Outsourcing has been tried a few times, usually messily:
Think wooing at one remove in Roxanne/Cyrano de Bergerac.

I tend to focus on my core competencies.

I have been doing the flirting thing and I am sure I did it right but didn't get any response. I thought - bugger it and made it even more obvious. waiting.....

Maybe a lot of you are just boring people?

You must remember to be accepted You must accept them and They must accept You that is the simple way of putting it in the end. If that can happen then You and them will have a relationship then. It is sometimes that does not work because We and They make it more complicated in the end. That is the ways of Humanity for sure. A person with AS with a NT would have to truly accept the differences of each other, and by doing that they would have that meaningful relationship.

Since there's no smiley here, I'll assume you're being serious....

Yes. The articles on the home page entitled "Secrets of Successful Eye Contact" "--Body Language" "--Flirting" and others.

He he he...

I wrote a fairly lengthy post just a few posts up on this very question. I'd love to hear your take on it....

Wait a minute: weren't you gung-ho on this stuff not too long ago? do share your change of heart.