Just because I have AS, do I have to respect all autists?

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Everyone is an individual. Why is there so much categorizing "NT" and "us" on these forums and why do people get so extremely upset when I express dislike towards even nameless autistic individuals from my past?

I also read outright stupid comments like "are you sure you have AS?" in response to someone starting sentences with "look" and "listen" etc. As if having a little attitude would somehow contradict AS? Are all people with AS expected to be silent, socially submissive bully victims?

I've come to realize that I have AS, it's 100% certain. The thread about obsessions with people along with a few others convinced me and I have no choice but to accept it, even if I denied it for 14 years ever since I was diagnosed. However, I don't fit into the personality stereotype and I don't feel natural sympathy or "kinship" with low functioning autists or people with Down's Syndrome etc.
I had high functioning AS friends I could communicate with very easily but there was also a lot of tension because of conflicting personalities and interests, so our friendship relations turned into hatred and mockery of each other eventually.

I don't see the point in coming together as one big, stereotype family "against the NT's". I'm also extremely annoyed with the most rigid and ignorant AS zealots who believe there is a type of AS conformity which is the "norm" for AS people. Much of their idea seems to be based on playing the weakness and victim card over and over and trying to point out that no one who acts dominant, looks down on others or isn't Jesus in the form of Spock can ever have AS. It's just so wrong and pathetic.

There's also a grave misconception about AS being in direct conflict with sociopathy. I have sociopathic traits and I have encountered a few far worse sociopaths who also most likely had AS. Really ruthless and calculating people who actually benefited from the fact that they couldn't identify well with people. It helped them manipulate even better.

I don't see how someone with AS could be a sociopath to be honest. How can someone social engineer or manipulate if you do not know all the social rules in the first place? Or look "natural" in a social setting?

High functioning people with AS can use their intelligence to boost sociopathic traits. Some people with AS have developed artificial social intelligence. Having AS does not contradict understanding social patterns. It just contradicts identifying with them. An intelligent AS person can understand why a group of people kiss up to a certain "popular" person but he can't identify with this need himself, even though he might even be able to emulate the emotion which makes others act the way they do.

I can emulate certain emotions of others and when I do I feel disgusted and it usually triggers me to start some kind of provocation. My AS makes me unable to identify with it, I feel like a whore if I pretend to identify with what NT's feel.

Last edited by Zoonic on 29 May 2009, 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Seeking out others who're similar to us in certain ways is a normal, natural sense. Unlike what some here may think, aspies are susceptible to 'mob mentality' just as much as NT's, the reason they may think they're not is simply because they don't feel part of the 'mob' in real life. On a forum with people whose experiences are very similar to our own, however, we can relate to them and therefor are susceptible to any 'mob mentality' that exists here.

You're just an outspoken, blunt and very individualistic person. It's natural that this collides within a community that's based on reaching out and bonding with like-minded people.

The stereotyping and simplifying is all part of trying to form a close relationship or bond with others. Finally finding out that there are others who have the same 'disorder' as you and then realising there are still vast differences within this sub-group can be a bit of a shock. It's just a coping mechanism.

(^pure conjecture^)

For what it's worth, I agree with your individualism but it's nice to see parts of myself reflected in others.

I agree with all of this, you're one of the most perceptive and clear minded people on here. There are a few others too I've seen so far but individual thinking is still the sign of a minority here in my oppinion. I think the mob mentality, and also the fact many deny it or are oblivious about it, can be damaging. Many seem to just be sucked in and accept it all with hook, line and sinker. WP is a gargantuan influence on the internet which helps shape the ideas of the average, mainly american, middle classes. Even a lot of people with AS deny the truth and grave lies like "AS and sociopathy don't match because sociopaths can read body language!" are being spread as if it was scientific, clinically proven truth. It's just propaganda. A lot of what's being said on WP is in fact mob propaganda and a form of "aspie nationalism".

It's something I've found entertaining ever since I joined here. The 'aspie pride' mentality seems to prevent many here from seeing the truth, despite their pride of being more logical than NT's they let their emotions run wild and make objective claims, clearly tilted against NT's.

I realise it's not in your nature to do so, but I suggest to just let these things go. Educate when needed or able, but there will always be resistance. Worying about them and fighting back would accomplish little more than giving you headaches and increased stress levels.

It is a problem when aspie nationalism becomes the main face of AS in the eyes of the public. It means people like me will be further marginalized and misunderstood and eventually, with future generations, even the clinical aspects of AS might be distorted to suit the will of the "mob". When a lie is repeated enough times it becomes the truth. I'm even told frequently on here that I "can't have AS because..." I'm even denied the right to identify as what I am because I don't support aspie nationalism and I don't fit the stereotype.

That is a serious problem, unfortunately my personality is one that's egocentric and I therefor lack the motivation to go against this faulty reasoning aslong as it doesn't directly affect me. However, it's a necessity to bring clarity and that's where the outspoken individuals (such as yourself) come into play.

It's a shame this is allowed to happen in a place that was made to promote accurate information about AS, but without proper moderating by those with the power to do so there's very little chance of this changing. There's always the option to form your own community, resolute in it's quest to provide objective facts. I'd join in a heartbeat.

PS: I feel I should make it clear that I'm not trying to appear clever or superior, this is just the way I write when I'm being serious and trying to deal with something objectively.

Most aspies I encounter are also psychopaths and aspergers was originally called autistic psychopathy for a reason. Asperger's and psychopaths go hand in hand. Not sure about HFA and LFA's as they are not as smart.

These are some of generalisations that need to be put down.

The differences between AS and HFA are hazy, for example: The licensed proffessionals who diagnosed me declared I have HFA, however, when I asked about AS they claimed they're the same thing and yet I've found much more of myself in AS.
So if even proffessionals, who do this for a living, find it justifiable to make to no distinction between the two it's clear that the differences are subtle and that there's an overlap with the 2 diagnoses.

oh please,
if you feel that people here don't share your point of view, then maybe you should join another forum.
You should remember that most of us have tried to intergrate ourselfs into NT culture.
this website is a haven to many people.
Don't attack us all just because you don't like a place where we can be honest and express our feelings without the fear of being judged.
If that sounds "pathetic" to you then maybe you are still in denial about your DX.

In that sentiment, maybe you should read the OP again and realise people judging and attacking him is what made him create this thread.

wow Zoonic, I couldnt agree with you more, great topic. Mod mentality is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard and it sucks away from any individualism. I see traits of myself in alot of people on this board, but that is it, just traits. AS dont define us, we define ourselves...

Thanks.

I'm just saying that if he is feeling hard done by, there is no reason to take it out on us.
Just because somebody made him feel bad, that shoudn't give him or anyone the right to attack the rest of us.

I know how this feels. I always feel like I'm 'manipulating' people's emotions because I know how certain people are going to react to whatever emotional 'signals' I give them. I usually don't feel much for other people unless I'm REALLY close to them. I've always been glad that I enjoy acting, because if I didn't, socializing would really be too much to deal with sometimes.

When I was younger, I went through a phase when I actually wondered if my conscience was missing, because I knew that certain things were bad, like stealing or lying, but when I thought about what it would be like if I did it, I didn't feel guilt. Never did steal anything, but I am a very convincing liar--I used this 'power' once to convince a forgetful teacher that I had, in fact, already done a certain assignment when I really hadn't. Felt bad about that one for years.

I must say I'm also surprised that there's so much 'conformity' on this forum. Not necessarily a bad thing, because I guess it does act as a support group for many, but most discussions seem to be focused on the similarities between AS people and how an AS person absolutely HAS TO feel/look a certain way, or how they MUST be bullied as children or it's definately not AS. Once again, not putting anyone down, I just find it interesting.