AS or NLD?

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my son was diagnosed NLD last year after a very traumatic year of verbally abusive teachers, emotionally abusive father, stressed out PTSD/AS mom (me), my remarriage, death of grandpa, getting kicked out of every activity I put him in, emergency move due to loss of our home, misdiagnosis of bipolar and severe reaction to the medications. he was diagnosed during his second inpatient stint.

now I'm wondering if he isn't actually more AS than NLD. medications have stabilized his mood, ongoing behavioral work has given him so good self-management tools, and letting him move in with his dad ended his unhealthy obsession with the idiot, so he's lucid and we've been able to discuss what actually goes on in his head and body, where he wasn't really able to verbalize it when he was diagnosed.

he goes into sensory overload and I'm starting to see patterns of what sets him off.

he does require more social contact than I'd expect from AS, but he made it very clear that he likes talking to adults and that people his own age don't interest him because they don't talk about interesting things.

I'm realizing that his long-time obsession with anime and manga, animation, cartooning and video games might actually be AS focus. if so, I want to figure out a way to support his interest because it makes him happy and could actually lead to a career because of its popularity.

I remember that he used to head-bang under severe stress but I thought it was transient self-harm because of how abusive his dad was to all of us. yesterday I remembered that he used to spin on one foot really often and I realized both of those could have actually been stimming behaviors.

sorry for the long post, but I would appreciate any feedback because I'm considering having him evaluated again because his IEP says NLD, anxiety and depression but perhaps he'd get additional services and opportunities with an AS dx.

AS and NLD are very similar, if not the same thing. A lot of people with AS fit the criteria for NLD as well. It could be that your son has both.

Good luck and best wishes. I hope that 2009 is a much better year.

thanks peeps.

I walked into the kitchen yesterday and he was rocking furiously while he was working on the computer. it was a super high-stress weekend for him but he handled it well, but seeing him rocking made me go "hmmm."

parenting evaluation starts this week because his dad seems to be in denial about our son having special needs and he's pressuring me for more time with our daughter, which I'm not sure he can handle since he doesn't have a clue about safety and emotions and "best interests of the child".

I'll definitely pursue this further.

I'm not familiar with NLD, but I think you would know best because you are mom. Just go with your instincts.

It's funny cause I've seen you post on here, and I would have no idea the hell you've been through in the last year. You might be a stressed out PTSD/AS mom, but it doesn't show. No wonder you sometimes remind me of me...I'm PTSD/AS.

AS and NLD are not exclusive. Quite the opposite really, they're like peanut butter and jelly. Or peanut butter and peanut brittle. However you want to look at it.

You have to keep in mind that AS is defined in terms of behavior, and NLD is more specifically indicative of abnormalities in the right hemisphere.

It just so happens that such abnormalities in the right hemisphere are conducive to the behaviors that make up AS.

Best wishes for you and your child, I have been served an AS/NLD cocktail myself and it has made my life very unusual.

hehe, thanks

I've been diagnosed PTSD for almost 2 years. when the AS dx came up, I was like "no wonder I'm such a mess!", then proceeded to stop being such a mess because so much started making sense.

my ex can push me over the edge, though. he's pretty skilled with inducing meltdowns, and my son and I talked about it this past weekend and concluded we think my ex actually gets an adrenaline rush from it (as well as other risky behaviors he's involved in)... but that's basically why I don't interact with him at all, and hopefully the evaluation will help us get some things in place to protect the more fragile among us.

thanks! I've been really struggling to sort out the AS/NLD puzzle, and it does seem to make more sense if I look at it as PDD, subgroup NLD, supgroup AS (although I still hate saying Asperger's, it seems wrong to name a brain wiring pattern after some guy) so subgroup Autism is actually preferable to me. it seems like it would be so much easier to assess if everyone's brain could be scanned, but I guess that diagnosis is going to remain a guessing game based on symptoms until brain scans are affordable for everyone.

when they diagnosed my son NLD, they went on behavior alone, and said his test scores indicated a right-brain deficit. seems like they're diagnosing on behavior anyway - diagnostic criteria seems to be pretty confusing!

I've been dx PTSD for about 2-3 years I think too (something like that). I got it as a military related condition, and I have a hearing tomorrow trying to up my disability percentage. I'm so worried that many of the things related to PTSD is also a result of Aspergers, so I don't want to lose that dx because it brings me tax free money whether I work or not (whereas Aspergers will not bring me that). My attorney asked me if I were receiving treatment for it, and I was like, no I stopped with the guy who dxed me because he just kept making me re-live the experience as treatment, and it was making me worse, not better. He was re-enacting the whole thing while trying to re-enact Rapid Eye Movement of sleep at the same time, and I'm wondering if it wasn't working now because of the Aspergers (sometimes I think it's possible that Aspies don't exactly push everything back into the long term memory banks during that time).

As for your ex, I will say my sister triggered a lot of my meltdowns growing up, and I see her do it to her Aspie son on a regular basis now. I used to think she was a sadistic witch, but now I'm almost positive she doesn't do it intentionally. I really think she's a very irrational person. I wonder if your ex is similar because what my sister did to me and does to her son can be easily defined as emotionally abusive. She's had me in moments where I felt like I needed a room with white padded walls as I'm curled up into a ball trying to pull out my hair literally. She was insane, and what's worse, she had everybody fooled that I was the one with issues growing up at least. Now people are seeing her true colors. Hahaha. Everytime they complain, I tell them, "I told you." Seriously, I've put on posts here how she's the exact opposite of Aspergers where if you were to expand the spectrum into NT world that eventually you'll have NT like disorders and she'd fall under that, and I've called her's the Drama Queen Disorder (DQD). Either way, total clash with Aspie personalities. Because nobody else believes me again on that one, it isn't too real (like to me it's real, but not by society's definition), but either way, there's no real treatment in my mind, but its helped me to kinda dx her in my mind when I'm dealing with her because now I see her differences like I see mine. Out of curiosity now, I wonder how similar, so I'll explain her DQD symptoms and see if your ex sounds like that (but remember, if it's on the spectrum, no two drama queens are the exact same...lol)

DQD symptoms defined as if an Aspie without any knowledge of the dsm criteria were to list their symptoms...

Attention hogs (loves attention and demands it constantly)
Incredibly Selfish (everything is about them, one way or another)
Social Butterflies (doesn't always have real friends, but has many acquaintances they confuse for friends...but the main thing is that they are able to manipulate social situations to work in their favor)
Argumentive (mainly in spurts, sometimes they are agreeable, but some days they will argue the weather with you).
Memory is very perceptive (their memories are based on their feelings after the event about the event as opposed to the actual event)
Feeling/emotion oriented (as opposed to the Aspie logic...most of their decisions are based on their feelings and emotions)
Over-reacts (constantly overreacts to many different situations, as opposed to how many Aspies tend to under-react, for instance, firing you as maid of honor because you wanted to hire a nanny to watch your kids at the wedding, and somehow you ruined the wedding for wanting the nanny there, and then they tell everyone how awful you are and then a week later after calling you a bad mom as that has everything to do with this situation, they forgive you and want you in their wedding again because they are so the bigger person--regarding example, see also verbal meltdown and a lot of things they say/do just doesn't make any sense)
Special interests in pop related subjects/or maybe fanatics are better words (like American Idol's number 1 fan type thing)
They are their mask (you know how aspies have the problem putting up a mask, these people have no substance as they are their mask like if they answered a myspace survey about themselves, all the answers are what they want people to think about them, even if nobody was going to read it but them, because they don't know otherwise what they think beyond what they want others to think about them)
Lack of sympathy (while they may know how others are feeling, they are not able to feel for others)
Numb senses (due to their selfish nature, they are often very unaware of their surroundings...like they know what's going on but they have tunnel vision with it focused on what they feel will serve their better interest)
Secretive (they will keep many of their addictions, feelings, etc. secret from many people sometimes for no real reason, like a 30 year old still sneaking cigarettes from mom).
Verbal meltdowns (like during arguments or when angry, they just meltdown to where they have no control of their actions, but instead of getting violent, which they are more than capable of doing if the meltdown is bad enough, they tend to make low blows just to hurt your feelings most of the time being completely irrelevant to the argument or discussion...like bringing up a skeleton from your past just because they are angry and want to make you angry, but not like once a year as much as like once a week...like everybody does this once in a while, but these people do it all the time).
A lot of things they say just doesn't make sense ... "I think McCain is racist because he's got a dog named Oreo." This also goes down to what they do, like, "I'm a Michigan football fan, a die hard Michigan fan, and I've been one for 2 years (when I'm 28) and I never been to Michigan, don't know anyone from Michigan, never known anyone to go to Michigan, and I don't even know much about football."

This is just a few, and I'm sure if I thought about it more I'd come up with more, but does this sound like your ex at all? Just curious.

yes, most of that really fits him except:

during temper tantrums he's physically attacked me.
physically abusive to our son.
seems to have bipolar disorder and is a complete adrenaline junky when he's manic.

I think he's at the extreme end of NT spectrum called Narcissistic Personality Disorder with Bipolar Disorder on the side, but I'm hoping he'll be forced to get a dx soon so I don't have to keep wondering

anyway, why would an AS dx make you lose benefits? I have no doubt that my PTSD is worse because of my AS, but AS didn't cause it... living under extremely stressful and dangerous conditions caused it. treatment has to be modified because of AS, and although I've been doing behavioral modification the focus of my treatment is changing as a result of ALSO having AS. that's something you can give your lawyer to see if it helps - that now that you have the AS dx, you can find a qualified treatment provider... but you're probably already in your hearing... hope it goes well!

I'm only scared to bring it up because all the things I'm claiming is really a gray area and has a lot of room for opinion. Not all doctors are that bright. But, at the hearing, the guy I talked too seemed very intelligent. It was funny too because everytime I caught myself rambling, a voice inside my head screamed "Shut the F-- up!" and I would stop (once mid senentence...lol). My biggest problem is that this is a situation where NT's generally lie about things, and I just can't bring myself to do that. Anyway, they decided to give it 60 days before this guy will make a decision to give my attorney some time to gather more information for him.

My sister used to physically attack me, but she's outgrown that, so that's why I put more than capable of it. Even then, she only did that on occasion compared to all the verbal arguments she'd start. But what stopped it though was she called the police once to report me, and they put her down for domestic violence on their report with me as the victim and promised her that next time they showed up at that address, they were arresting someone. But that still doesn't stop the irrational thinking and verbal abuse. But I can see how narcissistic can be the exact opposite of Aspies. I should probably read up more on that. So we can put Short Man Syndrome and Drama Queen Syndrome on the narcissistic spectrum...lol.

it seems that getting 60 days is a good thing instead of denying you outright. I hope you can get some additional reports or something to support your case.

I got through the first custody evaluation meeting for my big case, and it was kind of amusing that the psychologist recognized aperger's affect but was confused by my mad eye contact skillz. I explained that I'm good at eye contact because I taught myself how after finding out it's important to people. he asked me if eye contact gave me a physical reaction, and I realized I'd never thought about it before so I looked in his eyes and got pain in my stomach, like nausea. he told me I didn't need to make eye contact if I didn't want to, which was really nice. I'm just so used to doing it I couldn't stop, but I was thinking about it today and wondered if I wouldn't prefer to have conversations with people with my eyes closed, so I could just concentrate on their voice. I think I might.

also got to talk to my son's therapist about more assessments and he's in favor of it, so I need to talk to the psychiatrist now and see what I'm supposed to do.

I'm sorry, what's NLD?

You got me curious now..

I don't make eye contact, but I cheat by looking at the mouth. I can almost read lips now. My attorney is 100% blind, and I'm sure I confused people by appearing to make eye contact with him. But I'm just to a point where I can't focus on what a person is saying without looking at their mouth.

I would also keep a log of all the abuse you and your son receives from your ex (date, location, what was said/done, witnesses, etc.). You never know when that will come in handy as well. Watch it being all heresay, but heresay is better than nothing as it might spark memories for testimony. Any evidence you can acquire is good. I call it planning for the worse.

non-verbal learning disorder (also called NLVD), which is really similar to AS in that ability to process non-verbal queues is impaired. plus some other stuff I'm still trying to figure out.

I've been keeping an excel spreadsheet for the last couple of years, and every email for the past 4 (except for the 6 months missing because of a hard-drive crash - I really miss those because he wrote some really mean stuff to me )