Confidence pissing someone off

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I recently got into a minor economic discussion with a friend of mine on Facebook, who was complaining about the price of some merchandise going up; I explained my perspective of it...from that of someone who very thoroughly studies not only economics, but economic history as well.

I decided to take the argument off Facebook, and just discuss it with him further on AIM, as I didn't want it to appear to be a cheap advertisement for my website.

I was pretty much confident about my argument the entire way thru, and he got pissed off at the end and said he was getting aggravated, wanted to stop discussing it...so I brought up his website where he works, and he said nothing.

It's funny cause it seems whenever I'm very confident in discussing anything with people, they claim I appear arrogant, insensitive, or I piss them off or something.

Something tells me this is normal for us, and I'll just have to get used to it.

Any thoughts?

It also seems normal in general in people who don't have an argument that can hold up.

Admittedly, some "facts" are a little shaky, but it does seem common for those lacking factual information and hard data to support their side to resort to the kind of behavior you mention.

I've seen it, and have to admit I've done it

Basically, welcome to humanity, huh?

Pretty muchly

The fact that it was a minor economic discussion is a debatable perception.

Well, it never got too heated or anything; I just presented some facts, and when he told me he didn't want to discuss it any further, I just said "ok", and started talking to him about the website he works for.

For those wondering, it was about inflation....a topic a lot of people don't like to discuss.

When I get into a debate with my bf or anyone for that matter, they say I appear close minded to their side of it. He says it's because I'm just so matter of fact in explaining it, and I appear to disregard things that he has said.

That's just my thought on arguments... but when I watch my 7 year old son, he is the same way with arguing as well. He will push and push and push, then after it's ended, he'll come inside and say "you know I was right about that mom, don't you?" lol.

Well, in this case, allow me to elaborate that the issue was the price of action figures going up soon.

And a lot of people are going "that much for this? that's ridiculous!! !!"

I simply reminded them that most people said the same thing about the majority of Star Wars figures back in 1980, which by today's standards the price tag looks incredibly cheap in comparison.

I then remind them that this was 30 years ago almost, and around this time just a few years previous, a well-sculpted/articulated Mego figure could be purchased for around the same price, if not a dollar more..whereas the Star Wars figures were not even half the size, poorly sculpted, and very basically articulated.

My friend started insisting that, "in this economy", we couldn't handle inflation...and that inflation doesn't happen during a recession. My response was simply "want to hit up an old newspaper from the late '70s to verify that?" The term, in fact, was "stagflation".

What I found very interesting about that I had to bring this up to him...was that he was around 5-6 years old by that time, and am surprised he didn't hear anything about it. Even though kids don't usually care to hear about that stuff, parents and other adults can often bring it up regardless...at least mine did.

It's funny, cause in the past, I've also discussed economics with a now ex-friend of mine, and whenever I tried explaining my position, all she'd say was "that might sound very insensitive to people".

I'd ask her "what was it that I said sounds insensitive?"

All she could respond with was "it...it just would sound insensitive."


And worth noting...I do not get into politics or anything with this, as I've pretty much lost almost all interest in the political sphere...but economics can still be discussed regardless, believe it or not.

For some reason, economics lately is a really touchy subject. A lot of people on our street have recently been laid off from jobs and all, and the prices in our area are still going up.

I wonder if it's not so much that they really want to talk about it (like for real carry on a discussion), or if they are just venting to blow off steam. I really wish that people would just clarify that upon opening themselves up for it, because then we would know what to do. If they are venting, we can just keep our mouths shut, or tune it out and give them someone to listen to it... if they really wanna talk about it, that gives us the option to talk rather than them just thinking we are disregarding their feelings and not letting them get it out of their systems.

It seems hard to decipher for me on anything that turns into a debate, and I'm usually the one seen as insensitive when I'm really just trying to give them a different perspective or help them in some way to feel better about it ultimately.

Well, I don't know if this will put you at ease or not, but it might if you view it in a long-term perspective; it seems as though the economy goes under pretty much every 5 years.

What I find very interesting is that either people don't remember that it went under, or insist it never "was that bad", when much data suggests otherwise.

So, knowing that, do understand that yes, the economy will go under again in a few short years after rebounding.

Perhaps such confidence in my information can be looked upon by others as smug and insensitive, but I see it as having a head-start on what will be, so I can be better prepared to deal with it.

The reason no one wants to talk about it is that they're not really sure how to deal with it...which I would totally find mind-blowing, if I weren't already aware that their main ideology is pragmatism.

Never gets 'em far, but when do they ever learn that?

I'm not offended one bit, as I see it happening too, lol. But some people are taking it super seriously, and are very standoffish about talking about it, or just have super strong views about it. I wouldn't find it insensitive at all... I think it just makes them feel panicked to realize what is about to happen, and since they don't want to talk about it much, that may be where the "insensitive" stuff is getting thrown around.

People in general do not like to be wrong about anything, or think that they might be wrong, so defensiveness takes over, or they refuse to talk about it it seems.

It's kind of funny... ironic even, that they don't want to talk about it and think about being prepared for it all to happen... I wonder how many of them write up a grocery list in advance to be able to make sure they've budgeted for it.

So many things in every day life call for a lot of preparation as it is, I don't understand why they would not want to be prepared for the future, yet still complain about it happening anyway.

***on a side note, I'm not sure I comprehended your post properly, as I've taken a xanax so I can chill out a bit and actually sleep tonight without jumping at every sound I hear, lol... it's starting to hit me pretty hard.

Well, the very initial point of my post was how I seemed to be pissing people off, while being very confident in my arguments; then someone suggested that I explain how I handled the recent one I had with my friend, regarding economics, and I did so.

That may've been where you came in.

I'll say it: I feel very confident about my position. And to be perfectly honest, this is one of the reasons I have no desire to really train myself to imitate advanced social skills.

Seriously...if the most important things to adults to discuss are drinking, sex, politics, and an economic perspective that would be like Patrick Star from Spongebob talking to himself, I'm more than happy to be focused mostly on history, economics, and trivia-based stuff.

Ah, I see. That makes more sense fully-I read it, but have trouble keeping up in conversations as it is, so I think it got kind of jumbled up, lol.

I think it is normal for us. It's normal for others as well to tick each other off in debates, but one thing I've noticed with others is that they don't call one another self-righteous, arrogant, or any of those things at all when they argue or debate. They just agree to disagree eventually.

But when we push our points, it seems to me, that we just come across so very matter of fact, that it leaves a sour taste in others' mouths. It's already happening to my son I've found, and he is only 7 years old. He has asperger's as well, and I do, too. My boyfriend sees me as being the same way.

I think once he said I sounded too "clinical" (I guess he meant I was stating things unemotional, just very matter of fact or something to that nature). I do think it's one of our things to really cling onto what we are talking about or what we know about too, whereas a lot of others seem to be able to just drop it and leave it at that... heck, sometimes I'm not even sure they really care all that strongly about what they are talking about, but debate it anyway just in an attempt to be "right". The minute that changes, that's when they always end the discussion.

Tonight he actually told me that if he didn't know me as well as he does, he'd think I was just a very rude person.

I see what you're saying; it's almost like they start discussing it to "sound important, and like they matter". My response to that is "you don't...deal with it".

And no, I don't mean you, specifically...I think ya know what I meant, but yea..I think the whole debate thing is to feel important and like they matter.

Another fun response to that idea I could come up with would be similar to a line from Exit to Eden:

"Y'wanna feel important, and like you matter? Paint my house"

The original line, again, was a little different, but I think you get what I'm trying to say.

In regards to the emotionless sound to our argument...well yeah! I mean...it's like part of my philosophy on life: nature is run by logic, humans by emotion, with both clashing constantly.

Whenever I think of things like this, I always picture myself characterizing like Spock, and saying "it's illogical".

Ha ha-very true. I just never understood how they can defend something tooth and nail, but when confronted with an idea that *might* change their perspective, it's shut down... no more talk about it, and that's it.

People in general seem to talk just to feel important, just to talk. It doesn't even have to be debating... it's with everything. Going out of their way to show off something new, to tell you about how they went out with friends who you've never met... it's all just information that no one really wants to hear.

I think it's more about attention than anything. They want to feel smart, they want to show off what they know... then when they realize they don't know a whole lot, it's over, they are done, and they back out. We, on the other hand, wanna know why they are backing out, we wanna finish the discussion if it's something we are interested in. We want closure to it if anything at least.

It's like, "why start a conversation if you aren't going to finish it?" "why bother talking about things like they are important if you haven't researched anything to back it up with?"

But I suppose, that is moreso our thing as well. Making sure we have our facts straight, or at least trying to. When I get into an argument, I don't just drop it... I'll let it go for a bit, but I'll go home and look up more information to see where they are getting it from and all, then continue it the next day, or bring in a stack of papers for them to read, lol.

My bf and I debated something about politics for about an hour once... was the only time I ever debated with him. He argued tooth and nail... then at the end, he finally said "well, I'm done discussing this, and I'm not motivated enough to check out your facts, or to find out anything more about it." But still insisted on sticking with what he said. Now how does that make sense?

I've always found it hard to sound anything but "matter of fact" when it comes to things too, because I know the other person is just talking to hear themselves usually and really doesn't care what I'm saying because in their mind, that's the way it is, and there's really no changing that.

I don't know how to change that tone of voice... if I ever figure it out, I'll let you know, but until then, I'm sure I'll be ticking people off left and right because a lot of people see me that way.

By the way, if I'm getting too far off topic, just lemme know... I have a bad habit of ranting and changing direction in thought in the process, lol.