Asperger's, Anxiety, and Success in Life

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Yesterday, I began reading Marc Segar's "A survival Guide for People with Asperger Syndrome".

I saw that it was stated there that Marc has abruptly committed suicide. I felt compelled to look up more about him, and found out that he was trying to completely integrate himself into the neurotypical society and abandoned all of the quirks and interests that are characteristic of Asperger's.

This led me to recall a story about Mason McPhail, a boy with Asperger's from Toronto, Canada who also came across as a "normal kid" and committed suicide after going clubbing with his friends.

Personally, I have also noticed that I tend to become more depressed, anxious, and confused when I try to act neurotypical. I feel like I still need to interact with people from time to time, but at a very basic level. I am better off spending most of my time alone in quiet, unstimulating settings.

I see a trend here: the more a person with Asperger's tries to be neurotypical, the more stressed and confused they become.

This conclusion makes me wonder whether it is best for someone with Asperger's to ignore the fact that they are not going to make it in the social world and pursue their interests.

It depends on the type of interests one has, of course, but the more atypical the interest, the less likely is a person with Asperger's going to be able to make it in the social world.

Personally:
One obstacle to me becoming more socialized is that I feel normal and am fully satisfied with myself only when I am always in control of the consequences of my actions. In a highly unstructured neurotypical world, I often lose my self-awareness and do things that are out of my control.

Another obstable I struggle with is the inability to pursue my special interest as much as I want to. Going through mainstream education involves learning about a wide range of subjects. I could pursue my interests on my own time, but then I begin feeling stressed because I am cutting down the amount of time I could spend studying and thus I would get a lower grade.

Conclusion:
- Spending too much effort trying to socialize and attempting to adapt the autistic mind to the neurotypical thinking pattern (i.e. no perseverations, no special interests) could cause a lot of distress for someone with Asperger's.

- Spending too much time on special interest could cause a person with Asperger's to lead a more sheltered life.

- Both outcomes above will prevent someone with Asperger's from succeeding in life.

Since at the earlier stages of life (school/university/college) it is necessary to be highly social and to have a wide range of interests in order to succeed, it can be very stressful to do so for a person with Asperger's.

Is there a way a person with Asperger's can academically/socially succeed in such circumstances without high levels of stress/anxiety? By social success, I don't mean being a social butterfly, but at least be respected and held in high regards by authorities and peope he/she regularily comes in contact with. By academic success, I mean academically performing to one's full potential. Anxiety causes procrastination, and procrastination leads to poor academic performance.

It causes me significant amounts of stress to be rejected by people, and I would like to avoid that at all costs (that's why it's so important for me to understand and learn what it is that people don't like about me). I am fine with having no friends as long as I feel comfortable doing so.

Very interesting, and extremely well explained. It's tempting to suggest that as long as it makes you happy, pursue your interests to the fullest and NT society be damned. It is, however, poignant what you say about being rejected, that it makes you sad. Perhaps you could sort of find the middle way where you don't give up the things that make your "aspieness" rewarding while at the same time making minimal adjustments which are necessary to make socialising easier? Easier said than done, I know. But I think you're on to something really important when you express a desire not to lose yourself trying to adapt.

Good read. IMO simply "Do what thou wilt", in the end everyone's going to have to find their personal balance for everything. For some person out there that will mean living a completely sheltered life. Don't mean to be vague but that's life, bunch of different personalities on different levels.

You seem to be inclined to seek "academic success", just go for it. Reading through your thoughtful post I know you can do it. As far as social success goes, try to communicate well and never expect people to take interest in you at all times. Don't try to be best friends with everybody, you and everyone around you will recognize how fake that is. Find the right people, they'll come naturally. I have my one good friend from high school who I hang out with maybe once a month. That's who I'm comfortable with and the balance I can stand with him, always varying of course. At work I hang out with a guy who's kind of whiny and is somewhat racist, he has his own issues. He understands I have my own issues. We work well together. Nothing perfect but I consider myself lucky for these people and hope you can find something like that or better for yourself.

I'm sorry but you absolutely cannot avoid being rejected by people/someone. Don't fret it, embrace it. You reject people too. You need to sometimes, whether to be safe physically/mentally or because an individual does nothing for you. Unfortunately since you are a unique, specialized person it drys up the pool of options for you. You aren't going to be interested in a lot of people and vice-versa. It's just logically how this works. But what I've found, while you have to go deeper to find some cool people, you've also alienated yourself from very small-minded shallow people who will limit you. But you do have to work towards that, you can't just fall into it behind a computer screen.

I just read about Marc Segar and Mason McPhail. I found their stories quite tragic and upsetting. I don't really know if I can draw any sort of conclusion about what happened to them and feel that its that sort of thinking that creates most of my problems. I've stop caring about why people don't like me and trying to fit it. If that makes me a bit of an as*hole then fair enough but I feel I've gave it my best shot and don't want to be hard on myself anymore about it.

Here is my advice. Full disclaimer: I don't know if I have AS, and if I do I have it quite mildly and have been able to adapt pretty successfully. That said, I don't feel remotely "NT" in most of my thought processes. So take this advice as you will.

1. Excel at what you know you are good at. Play to your strengths. If you get really good at it, others will notice and will approach you with respect and eventually friendship. I've found it far easier if people approach me extending the arm of friendship than the other way around. They are much more likely to overlook quirks that way. Plus you are more likely to meet people who interest you this way.

2. Learn enough about the basics of social interaction to at least not come off as cold or rude. This takes a lot of practice. You will still say the wrong things at times (and you will think some things very very loudly that you learn you shouldn't say), but the times you don't "put your foot in it" should be outweighed by the times you didn't.

3. Be confident in yourself. People notice this right away. This is a tough one for many, I know. I am extremely lucky to be highly confident, and I believe it has helped me tremendously through life.

4. Be humble. Even if you are very clearly the expert on something, people like to decide this for themselves; they don't need you telling them. I remember very well the advice I was given in college, "Never forget how important humility is to your character." I couldn't agree more.

I think the best thing we can do for ourselves is to be ourselves, but to temper it just a little bit with social sense and expectation. Shape your world; don't shape yourself to fit the world.

If I tried to act more NT by hanging out in bars, dance halls etc. with high sound volume, lighting contrast and smoke, I would be unhappy, too. The smoke would be bad for my lungs and I would gradually suffer hearing damage without sound protection, too. It's not that these things are to be avoided entirely, but self awareness means knowing that you can become overloaded, and why, and managing this by stepping out for a few moments as required or leaving altogether for the night if need be.

I used to become depressed after socializing in large groups because of the failure to meet perceived expectations, and overload on top of that, but now that I understand why this is happening my response is different. Now my response is to count my blessings upon returning to solitary refuge and not hold it against any person whose company I found disturbing, irritating or overwhelming.

Nights out can create expectations that leave one worse off in the long run. It makes sense that the approach of just ignoring one's own limitations would tend to make one depressed. I am aware that my own mood is fluctuating when my own interests seem less interesting, and I am happier when the interests come back.

Thanks for your great advice, Fiddlerpianist. I really enjoy your posts here on WP, and am very grateful that you have posted in my thread.

This is a good suggestion, but it's very difficult to accomplish. Whenever I am surrounded with people, I find it difficult to ignore the desire to connect with them immediately.
I've found that if I don't reach out to people, they will not pay attention to me. I have obtained the highest marks in several classes, but most people in those classes still didn't talk to me. I think being an overachiever instills fear in other people. Add the fact that I always come across emotionally distant, and people think that you are unapproachable.

It is fine to me if they think that I'm a little eccentric as long as I can show that I have talent to compensate for my social deficiencies. Unfortunately, I end up doing very badly in some subjects, which makes me feel completely inferior.


This is what I am trying to accomplish.

It is one thing to simply read about the nature of social interactions and basic advice given in books. However, applying these rules to myself is a very difficult task. What makes it even more difficult is the discrepancy between how what I feel myself doing and what other people see me doing. For example, when taking a picture I might feel like I'm smiling distinctly, but on the picture the smile looks faint and unemotional.

I wish more people could give me honest advice on how I appear to them and in what ways I seem different from other people.

Although I have put a lot of work into my social skills, I still find that some people with Asperger's are more successful than me both socially and academically. I am trying to meet more people with Asperger's in real life because I feel that it's better for me to go back to basics and understand myself a bit better through other people with AS. I'm trying to figure out what it is that instantly repels some people from me, and how to come across more neutral so that at least I would be able to come across as neurotypical in places where I need to be so.

I always learn from my mistakes, but they keep popping up all the time, and the losses I suffer due to them are tremendous.


I have also been highly confident most of the time. When too many bad things happen, though, my confidence suddenly drops tremendously.

So true! I can apply the above quote to my immediate family, as well. I have always felt like the changeling amongst my siblings. To this day, I am not sure whether any of them are Aspies, although it seems very likely, given the odds. My mother is terminally ill. So, many of my siblings have traveled to see her. Being surrounded with excited children, loud talking, and staying up late reminiscing, was taking a huge toll on me. In the past, I had come home from similar instances amongst my family, where I melted down, and felt badly for not fitting in. This time, I counted the hours until I could reach my haven. I could shower, and rest, amongst familiar settings and rituals. I feel blessed to know exactly what I need, and be able to provide it, without feeling bad about it.

It's not about having friends to me as much as having a good reputation. I can do well without friends provided that I have my special interests to take over. It is easier to maintain friends outside of school because that way, we don't have to talk to each other in highly stinulating surroundings such as noisy classrooms and school halls.

The problem is, even teachers tend to like students who are more social. I remember being called to the guidance office after a meltdown. The guidance counsellor told me that several teachers in the past have reported that I have a lack of a social life compared to other students. I can also see a difference in how some teachers talk to me as opposed to other students. I tend to be liked by teachers who are less popular among students.


I don't reject people. If I happen to, it is usually because I felt that they were being dishonest in our relationship. I find that there is something interesting about everyone out there.

One thing that is very disappointing is that there are some people who have been initially interested in me. However, it seems that they either got bored of being with me because I didn't give much emotional feedback to them/show much empathy, or they found something about me that they strongly disliked. It might also be the social pressure to be around "cool people" and to ignore anyone who stands out from the crowd in a socially malignant way.

I don't understand how some people can refuse to conform but still be quite popular and respected by many.
It might be a status that just takes longer to attain. But it also might be that there is something about that person that everyone admires/likes.

I just started 'coming out' as an aspie to people, and letting more of my natural aspie characteristics show. I don't worry about what my hands are doing, and say things the way they are in my head (somewhat), without as much translation.

Everyone has been great about trying to understand, but not treating me differently. They accept the quirkiness better when they know the specific neurological model, and actually think it's kinda cool. And it's been really liberating for me. I'm much more relaxed.

Of course I also follow the guidelines fiddlerpianist so cogently listed.

I wish I thought in words sometimes... I think in pictures and associations. So every time I talk to people, I have to translate from pictures to words, which takes time and is the reason why I often speak very slowly. But of course it's always easier to speak your mind. It is when you need to stop speaking your mind that it gets much harder.

The ability to tell people about Asperger's is why having a diagnosis is so useful. If you're not diagnosed, people will say things like "you just have to try harder" and "you're using it as an excuse". I've never told anyone except for my teachers and 2 close friends so far. If I tell anyone else, it feels like I'm not telling the truth, because who knows whether I have AS for sure?There are many people out there with Asperger's who are still undiagnosed.

I've made a thread a while ago about whether people have had positive or negative experiences after 'coming out' Asperger's, and have received mixed responses. You are lucky it turned out well for you.

One piece of advice I can offer is try not to see the off-topic subjects as being separate from your field of interest. They are a means to getting where you want to be, not just an annoyance. You may find yourself getting more out of them than you think you will.

I can't really help you much with the social issues you're facing. Mine are just the opposite. I'm really not that interested in "connecting" with people and don't find them terribly interesting unless we're discussing something related to one of my interests. I went to a BBQ tonight because I needed to for networking purposes -- yech! -- and still caught myself sitting to one side and rebuffing someone's attempts to "connect" with me without even intending to do so. I have to concentrate in social situations to keep from doing this.

That's true, and I manage to do this a little when I'm able to shift my focus gradually. For school, one has to juggle many things at once, and that's where I have problems. I can only concentrate on a limited number of things at a time, or my mind spirals out of control thinking about everything at once. I perseverate on everything, and my mind cannot persevere on so many unrelated things.

With the off-topic subjects: That's a very good idea actually, never thought about it like that. I'll try this approach and see if it works.


So, I'm wondering, why don't you take interest in people? I find people fascinating and don't understand how one can possibly not like getting to know different people. Someone has told me before that every single person in this world knows something that you don't. This alone gets me curious about the social world around me.

It obviously didn't work.

Ya sound like yer still in high school, and I remember having those concerns as well.

Of course the teachers do; they're NT...they pick up the "vibes" of social students. Hell, I think they even sympathize with the bullies over you, despite what they'll say.

Don' worry kiddo...your reputation won't be an issue, as long as you find your niche; find what you're good at, and your reputation will grow from that.

Better to be recognized and successful for something you're good at, then to be lauded and criticized for something you're not..and likely never will be.

I haven't finished reading it yet.
I've read the "education" section, and it gives very basic advice. Some of the social suggestions were very helpful, though, and there were many things there I've never known about before. For example, Marc wrote that you shouldn't stand behind people as it startles them. That was something completely new to me