Sometimes I don't understand others, and am glad not to.

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A friend of ours (we've been rather back and forth for a while now as to whether or not we are friends and I've been kind of leaving it in the air as she cannot make up her mind) called me the other day, and told me that my son was being very mean to her daughter.

Apparently, he is doing things like tearing up things she gives him (she wrote him a thank you note for helping her with her homework a while back), telling her he doesn't want her anywhere near him, etc. I was rather shocked, as he is usually pretty laid back.

I asked her how long it was going on for... she told me it's been going on for 2 weeks.

When I asked her WHY she didn't tell me until now, she said she was afraid to because I get mad when her daughter tells on Zack for things a lot of the time... now, keep in mind, this girl tells on him for rocking back and forth, humming, looking in her general direction, and for things that don't even remotely pertain to her in any way shape or form, and did so for a VERY long time before I finally told her I didn't want to hear it anymore and she was getting on my nerves, quite frankly.

Her mother knows this, as I specifically told her that it was bugging me to be constantly hearing about things beyond his control, things that have nothing to do with her, and I told her it was really irritating to have the girl call me the second she walks through the door after school (as my son is walking into the door) with some story trying to get him into trouble for absolutely nothing besides the sake of getting him into trouble every single day.

Why in the world did she think that completely unacceptable behavior was going to be ignored when she knows darn good and well (because I told her specifically what I didn't want to hear about) what was bothering me?

I really don't get it... and if I try to explain things to her, as I have been for months upon months now, as how he thinks when he's dealing with her daughter, as well as how I think when I'm dealing with her, she seems to get this attitude like she thinks I'm one of those "my child can do no wrong" parents. Which is far from the truth, as I know he can be quite difficult at times.

She fails to grasp that with him it's not just a simple scolding, or that if she waits 2 freakin weeks to tell me about something, by then it's much harder to address/redirect because she has allowed it to become habitual while not telling me anything.

She doesn't grasp that he and I are different from her and her daughter, and made it a point to tell me that "We have NEVER had problems like this until we met you guys". Hmmm.... with her daughter's attitude, I imagine it would have only been a matter of time, but that is beside the point.

I really don't grasp it... her behavior is so odd, so not straight-forward, and I'm tired of being stuck in between knowing and not knowing what the heck is going on. In a way, it makes me glad that I am very straight forward about things... but in another way, I wish I could be so incredibly aloof and vague about things, because that seems to be the only way others will actually be able to understand anything I'm saying, lol...

Anyone else get stuck in this catch 22? Or know what to think of my ramblings?

I swear this was originally just going to be a question, but I felt a need to explain my reasoning for stating the subject line to begin with... so it's rather up in the air at this point as to what the post/responses will wind up being about, lol. I hope you guys don't mind that.. seems my brain is stuck on shuffle today.

Yeah, I know the type, am dealing with the type right now. I just got informed that we're not friends in the way that I think of friends... when I asked her what she meant by friend she said (get this) someone who loves you in spite of your mistakes (big of her) but who you don't rely on, depend on or expect things from. WTF?!

We've done a lot of hanging out together over the years, killed a bottle of wine between the two of us over dinner, soaked in hot springs together, stayed at each other's houses when traveling (she's in another state), told our life stories to each other, shared our anxieties and joys, gone to lectures together... but when I got upset by her deciding she'd rather spend time with another person and cancelled our planned museum trip together I get...
You need to take disappointment better.
You want too much.

Now I learn she doesn't find my company relaxing... her stated reason for waffling (and it was a back and forth deal) and finally quitting on the planned museum trip. Well, pardon the hell out of me... I guess I haven't been reading her body language clearly and she was just being nice.

Remedial steps are being taken... she is a friendly, not a friend. I won't be staying with her, dining with her, or devulging inner secrets with her anymore.

If you can, it sounds like you should take remedial steps of your own regarding your little flipper.

So far, I haven't gone out of my way to call her or anything... I also told her that I need to talk to my son to find out why he is being the way he is, and the bottom line is, if she has done something and he doesn't want to be friends with the girl anymore... I'm not going to make him. Which is what I think she wants me to do, lol.

She keeps doing this bizarre thing lately too... she'll call, and while talking she'll pause and say "oh, I have to go, that's my dad on the other line-I'll call you back". Then she never does, lol. ...and it's funny... I mean really funny to me because there is no interrupting beep or anything that happens when someone is getting another call or anything. It's just out of the blue "oh, I have to go..."

I'm with you-I won't be hanging out much with them at all anymore. All that ever happens is a bunch of problems from it anyway that I would rather not deal with. The only problem I foresee, is that my son rides the bus with her daughter, and they live literally right around the corner from us.

Um, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near somebody who told on me for rocking back and forth either. I know that what he did was rude, but wasn't it pretty nasty of the girl to tell on him for looking in her general direction to begin with? It sounds to me like this mother is the "my child can do no wrong" parent. I guess what I'm asking is whether your son is being mean, or whether he fairly legitimately doesn't want anything to do with this girl? Is telling on somebody for looking in your general direction any nicer than telling someone you don't want them anywhere near you?

Oh definitely-what she did is worse probably to begin with since she has been doing this for months on end just to see him get into trouble or to point out his differences. Her mother is definitely like that... for instance, she allows her daughter to tell secrets about everyone all day long and says not one word to her, and that drives me nuts. I always hated those kids who told secrets non-stop all day long, and I'm usually the one listening to hers... it's always something nasty about someone else, never anything nice or just... normal.

She also makes excuses for these things all day long. "She's just shy". Okay, I get that she might be shy and prefer whispering things to talking out loud, but to say nasty things about people every time you whisper is NOT just being shy, it's gossiping and annoying. She fails to see this.

I do think he is being mean for sure, BUT, I also know that he has a reason for doing it and knowing exactly why would change my approach to the situation dramatically. Because I know how things have gone in the past between her and him, I have decided to "let it sit" and say very little or take little action until I know why he is behaving the way he is. She apparently does not approve of this method and makes that fairly clear. She also ignores the fact that the reason behind an action is what needs to be figured out before the behavior is going to be officially addressed (unless it's harmful to someone of course).

I told her neither of us know what is going on on that bus, and I personally know her kid drives me freakin batty, lol, so I can imagine it's the same for him. We just don't have the patience for all that "I know something you don't know" kind of crap she does on a daily basis just to annoy others or feel above them.

Basically, I just asked him if he wanted to stay friends with her or not, and told him his decision either way is fine with me. He said he does, so I told him how she was feeling about it and he apologized on his own. I just know I'm not getting a full story about what is going on though... or it would have never started in the first place it seems-not directed at a particular person at least unless that person did something that upset him.

anxiety25, I think this is may be where the grown up decides who is going to be friends with their child... there is a big difference in what little boys can do to little girls and what little girls can do to little boys and get away with it. I think you are letting your son be set up for big trouble... it won't matter what the provocation is if he gets pushed to the point of striking out.

If this were my kid, knowing how malicious this little girl is, I'd separate them now before your son gets accused of something really nasty. This girl and her mother are socially toxic and it's a good time to teach your son about these kind of people for his own future well being.

Aspies are socially naive and suckers waiting to get set-up. A child doesn't have the clear vision to see what's coming down the pike... that's the parents job. I'd talk to the school and see what sort of things can be done during the bus ride to protect your son from this monster-girl's social toxicity.

Unfortunately, that's still a big chunk of my problems today, lol. I can see no better than he can what is coming up or what could happen. I could imagine some scenarios I suppose, but they are blurry, because there is no definite way to tell. I'm half expecting him to just come out and say that he really doesn't want to be friends with her and he's been trying to push her away... at least, that is what I think about the behavior since he is literally telling her to stay away from him.

I know when I was little, I had a lot of trouble saying I didn't want to be friends with someone... I mean, my friends were few and far between as it was, and when you decide to not be friends with one person, there are usually at least 4 people who you could run into who would never give you a chance just because of that choice in school... not to mention how much worse things could get for him later on if he did say something since we live near one another and all.

It's just a rough spot to be in ultimately. It's hard too, I guess, because I have a hard time making decisions about easy things... this is something pretty big to be stepping into and making a decision on, knowing it will impact him more than it impacts me in a direct way. How do I know it's actually the right thing to do?

Have you tried to explain to him that somebody who "tattles" on him for looking in her general direction is NOT his friend? I put tattles in quotes because I think of tattling as telling about something bad somebody did, and looking in the general direction of a friend is not a bad thing to do. It doesn't sound like your son has the option of "staying friends" with her if she's not his friend to begin with.
Of course, I don't know what might be being held over his head. You've mentioned his teacher and principle both bullying him already. The girl may be threatening to say really nasty (and completely untrue) things about him.. and would probably get away with it.
I.. don't really have any idea how you'd deal with that.

That is part of the problem with me actually interfering and saying that they just shouldn't be friends, and not leaving it an option for him to choose. I of course, will only hear their side of the story from them... but am not getting all of the information from him to know what is fully what is going on.

I know the behavior was out of character for him, but really don't know what triggered it. Despite things like that going on with her and all, they have for the most part gotten along to be honest. I personally don't like it one bit but keep that between her mother and I, and address things as they come up, but don't say anything directly to the kids, as I don't want it to interfere-I don't want to be making my child's friends for him and ditching his friends for him either. I want it to be his choice unless it is clearly just plain not good.

I don't know how they normally treat one another on the bus. I don't know if she's been bragging or pulling that kind of stuff on the bus. I do know that if I know for a fact that her mother and I have talked about something, I will remind her about her manners from time to time and the issue is dropped... but on the bus, there is no one interfering in this way and keeping her "in check".

I don't know if it was just a typical argument between friends... I don't know if he's just getting older and is getting into the whole "girls vs. boys" things due to making new male friends in class and all.

There are just too many things unknown in the situation as a whole for me to make any sound judgment and do anything extreme.

Perhaps you and your son would benefit from professional counseling on how to proactively identify and deal with bullies... which is what that little girl is doing. "Tattling" to get someone in trouble, enlisting the adults to her side to punish him... you don't need the "whole story", you already probably know enough to act.

It's your job as a parent to interfere in your child's life... he needs to know you've got his back, so to speak. If you doubt your abilities to make good decisions, then get help with that. Don't pull a cop-out and leave another Aspie kid at the mercy of manipulative NTs.

I'd rather be safe than sorry... and that little girl and her mother are not safe. Not in my opinion. They do not have the kind of qualities that an Aspie needs in their friends.

Understanding others can be quite revealing and quite disturbing as well.

G'day Anxiety,

Yep I am with DB

Your AS son is no match for any girl let alone an NT one that seems hell bent on causing trouble or pain to all most anyone not only him. From your discription this girl is trouble with pig tails, it sounds like she could bring down the most socially competent child alive. The way you describe the mothers behaviour there is possibly no wonder she acts the way she does. It is also a fairly good indication that you will get no sincere support from the mother in sorting this problem out. She will possibly be hell bent on attributing blame (more than likely to your son)and showing how her daughter is an angel.

On the whole NT parents are all caught up in the emotionality of being a parent. There for see it as nothing less than tretcherous to see their child in any thing less than the best light. Where as we as ASDian parents....................well are not usually like this at all. We simply see what our kids do and that is our reality. It is a fact that often our kids get more than their fare share of any trouble that is on offer. Often without having the most miniscule percentage of conscious intention to do wrong.

I would think your son would have a bloody good reason for apparently turning on this girl. Unfortunately sometimes you just have to know the right question to ask your son to get to the bottom of things. Sometimes these things are so twisted and contrived there are no words for a child to desciribe the problem. Maybe you won't ever get the information you need untill it is far too late. However I think this girls previous behaviour towards your son is enough reason for you to warn him off this girl. Even if your son has no other friend on the planet he does not need this kind of company, no one does. Just because you are his mothers friend/nonfriend only means this girl has had enough access to your son to know he is very vunerable. It should not effect you in the least that this woman is a "FRIEND" you need to protect your son, no matter what.

My advice would be to drop these people like hot potatoes. You will both be better off.

cheers

It occurred to me that maybe the reason the mother didn't say anything before is because she knows something you don't. Like, if two weeks ago the girl did something particularly nasty that caused your son to start behaving this way?

Ah... nice observation. I hadn't even thought of that.

I have decided I'm just going to quit answering the phone and leave it at that. I was thinking about it last night, and I'm so incredibly eager to believe what people say and such, that if I, of all people, am actually saying "this person is acting really... weird/fake", then it's something to be very leery of.

Thank you all for your advice, and listening to me vent/rant/question things, lol. Similar things have happened with these people a few times now, and the behavior portrayed by her daughter has been ongoing.

My problem last time upon confronting them about the situation and my thoughts on what was going on, was the mother became very defensive and... well, irrational altogether upon the first initial complaint, quickly turning to "We really want to stay friends and would like to learn how to work with you and your son, blah blah blah". Now, of course, I know it was just a ruse to keep us around and there were no true intentions behind the words... and if there were, they were fleeting. I fell for it, eager to believe people as I often am, and so did my son...

This time I will not fold so easily, and I think that just kind of avoiding her until she gets the point will be our best bet, as it will prevent me from falling back into it, as well as being able to avoid all of the emotional protective mommy stuff that goes along with it. Since I've tried talking to her once and it obviously failed, avoidance is my next move, because talking does no good I have learned.

Thanks again-I do much better when trying to help others with issues than when figuring them out on my own. It's hard to take an observer standpoint at times, and you guys have helped out a ton. It was easier when I sat down last night and wrote out all the things that have been going on, then asked myself "what would I tell someone if they brought this to me and wanted advice?"

YES, YES, YES! =0) Trust your gut... we tend to be so distant from our feelings that if we notice them at all, something must be up.



I'm not sure this is the most empowering strategy you could use, but whatever works. It's a real skill to effectively confront someone and stick with your own good decision. I understand completely.



Yeah, me too.
You might talk to the bus driver to find out what's going on and see if there's a way to support your son's safety from that little girl while he's on the way to school. The driver may have some good, realistic suggestions.

Mainly the reason I choose this method is because of the outcome and events from the last time.

Parents are rather... psychotic, or can be, when it comes to someone talking about their children. See, if someone says my child did something wrong, I believe them usually, lol, because I know my child is no angel... but this woman... You hear of those people freaking out because not everyone thinks their child is the cutest kid on the earth? Well, people really do that, and it's quite... unnerving/scary.

When I brought up her daughter's behaviors before, and why they were becoming problematic for my son, she really really kind of went... nutty. I still don't really understand her reactions.

I initially, that time, was calling to sort things out, as he had actually told me how he was feeling and what was making him feel that way-pretty straight forward. So I figured it was a good idea to talk to them and let them know what was going on and how it was effecting him, how we perceived it, and to find out how they were intending things to be.

Well... she first got her child screaming bloody murder immediately by announcing to her 7 year old daughter "Liz and Zack don't want to be friends with us anymore". (Gee, thanks lady) Once she finally got her mind around the fact that I don't have her daughter on the same pedestal that she does, she calmed down and asked what behaviors were causing him to feel bad.

I (reluctantly after that incident) told her what was going on and that he felt like he was being bullied. Once again, she starts screaming and getting the girl all worked up... this time I was almost crying right along with the girl. Granted her child was behaving badly, that is seriously no reason to rip her a new one without hearing her side of the story, attempting to hear me out... or even tearing into her like that when SHE is the one who allowed her daughter to become that way to begin with.

Finally, she chilled out after about half an hour of me trying to talk over her rantings and such, just trying to get her to lay off of the kid (at least while on the phone with me) until we got it all sorted out.

She starts... almost crying. Talking about how sorry she is, etc. I bought it all.

After 2 hours of talking, she had made a promise to work with me, because both of them genuinely wanted to remain friends. It felt... good, to have come to some sort of compromise, especially since it seemed to be more of a how we perceived things vs. how they intended them situation. Since we are so off in our perceptions much of the time, that was easy to accept and work on.

Since, she has quit coming around us, lol. But the kids continue to see one another on the bus, so of course that does not help since she is obviously NOT working with her daughter in any way, shape or form.

At this point, second-sorta third time around, I've decided it's a lost cause to attempt it, and it just causes a lot more problems. I know her reacting like that to her daughter could DEFINITELY lead to worse behavior towards my son on the bus if I did bring it up again. That, and the first time around I fell for it and gave it another shot... I'm not so sure that it all continuing and escalating deserves any merit to even TRY to talk to this woman with how she has disregarded and avoided dealing with the situation anyway.