Being confident in social situations can backfire.

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I don't think I've ever had major social anxiety. I can talk to most anybody without being afraid of embarrassing myself; of course, I do embarrass myself--often--but I shake it off really easily. I'm also a real introvert, the sort of person who prefers social contact a couple of times a month; so that might have a lot to do with it--rejection doesn't affect me nearly as much as an extrovert who needs social contact every day.

However. Unlike the socially anxious autistic, I am not constantly monitoring myself for social appropriateness. The other day, I casually called a retired friend of mine an "old lady", and just yesterday I went to a meeting and must have interrupted people at least a dozen times over an hour. Honest mistakes, both of them. Neither things really cause me a great deal of shame. I mean, she IS an old lady; I just don't think there's anything wrong with being old. Stupid culture that says it's shameful to be over thirty-nine. But there are times when I monologue over what the other person is trying to say, and communication becomes pretty much one-sided. That's when my lack of social anxiety really does backfire, because it means the other person can't communicate to me.

I think I make more social mistakes than most autistic people because I am not afraid to speak up. Of the autistic people I know in real life, only about one in five are like me--completely unfazed by constant social gaffes, either unaware or uncaring about social rejection. Oddly enough, there seems to be no correlation between "functioning level" (in terms of how much help you need) and this atypical lack of social anxiety, except possibly in the areas where social anxiety would directly hinder you. I think it's actually a funny variation on the "aloof" autistic social orientation, because for the most part, either not caring or being unaware of what others think of you speaks to a divide between you and others that's a lot wider than if you were constantly aware of what others might think and modulating your actions to match social norms.

I see all these quiet, careful types who don't speak up until they are absolutely sure that they're saying the right thing. And they're a great deal more accepted, socially, than me. They're also a great deal less able to advocate for themselves and make their own decisions known--even though they have their own opinions and want to make their own decisions just like I do. There seem to be advantages to either way of living.

I agree. There was a point in time where lots and lots of therapy had convinced me that I should be confidant, and be myself, and that people would like me... yadda yadda yadda. But when I acted on that, people didn't like me, and it all came crashing down, and I was in an even worse place, because it had all been proven wrong. It's not good to be confidant that you are things that you're not. Unfortunately, confidence seems to be the whole goal of most therapy.

Mm. I think I'd rather be confident than not, even if it does mean I mess up constantly. There's a difference between accepting your socially clumsy self, and actually being in denial that you're socially clumsy in the first place. If you're Aspie, that denial's going to come crashing down.

Have you read about Lorna Wing's autistic types? You're a perfect fit for the active, but odd type. I'm more off the passive, but friendly type...

You can accept your socially clumsy self but still not act on it due to just not wanting to deal with the repercussions. It doesn't mean that you are in denial, but almost too aware and cautious about how you are normally, and that in itself can be quite hindering in social interaction.

Some of us have tried many times to be confident, I mean-after all, all through school what do they say? "Be yourself.", "People will like you for who you are.", etc.... but it just doesn't work that way. Some of us wind up being the total opposite, because even if we do meet those few who like and accept us for who we are, there are plenty who do not, and are not careful about voicing their opinions to us.

I personally, have learned that, and choose to stay quiet a lot of the time simply because I feel the emotional impact of having such a rough time saying anything to begin with, that when the downward spiral starts, I automatically react and become rather harsh on myself-emotion wise. I don't like that feeling, therefore, I don't bother trying all that often anymore. But it doesn't mean I am in denial... it just means I am unwilling to open myself up to it very often because I know all too well what can happen if I do.

Well, for me the confidence got totally torn down, so I was worse off than I had been before. But it was an unnatural confidence propped up by therapists, that I deliberately chose to believe because that's what they told me I should do.

It has often occurred to me that social anxiety has kept me out of trouble, although people can misinterpret it (e.g., as aloofness, snobbery, dullness, and lack of intelligence). My self-advocacy skills only really developed in my thirties, although I still rely on written communication to self-advocate.

The point is that it doesn't matter if other people like you. As long as you like yourself, you have everything you need to be happy.

That's a nice theory.. but it only works if you're so good at something that people can't manage without you, or if you're a hermit. If you have to interact with people, it does matter, 'cause if they don't like you, they can make things really awful. Not to mention getting fired, not getting jobs in the first place, having lots of people being really nasty to you.. etc.

My shyness helps me. It keeps me from saying the wrong things.

I'll take Option B...

If you don't care when they're nasty to you, then that doesn't matter so much unless they actually beat you up.

There's got to be a middle ground between watching your every move to appear as NT as possible (and coming off as weird and getting rejected anyway), and being as weird as you wanna be in exchange for losing some of your ability to communicate with the normality-loving NT type.

I found it a lot easier to communicate with NT folk when I stopped pretending to be normal. I have a friend that I sometimes visit -- she suffers from manic-depression. I met an unemployed, football/music/film-loving biochemist from doing voluntary work in a charity book and music shop. I also had a barber who happened to be a lifelong Spurs fan and had quite a few conversations with him. I interact with NT folk from all over the world in relation to my hobbies/interests. It takes all sorts to make the world go round.

I'm constantly shaking off embarrassing myself in social situations. I'm like Callista, because I rarely socialise. I'm happy with being on my own, I will socialise maybe 4-6 times a month so I don't mind if I do say the wrong thing.
You got to be content with who you are.

Callista wrote

Thanks for describing me so well!

I was so unconcerned about what others thought of me when I was young that I was somewhat like a cartoon character. For example, I HATED to wear shoes and socks, so would go absolutely anywhere bare-foot, and this went on until I was 16 years old! I recall prolonged rows over my being forced to wear shoes to important social events. I didn't give a hoot what anyone would think of me for attending shoeless. My poor mother lived in constant terror of supreme embarrassment of finding out where I had been bare-foot.

After the age of 15, I became more aware of the need to respect certain social norms, but I conform for practical reasons, not so that people will like me. And yes, I currently live a beautiful hermitic life, socially isolated in the hills, but I am not in any sense a misanthrope.

The only real problem I have is keeping jobs. Keeping friends can be done in a variety of ways. I maintain most of my friendships online.

I kinda have been very hermit-ish in recent months.. And just realized the other day that for the first time in my life, I'm not depressed. But that might backfire, because I'm on disability.. and if I get to be "normal" then I'll probably lose the disability. But the only reason I'm doing better is BECAUSE I can just hide at home. I can't make a living doing that, though. So it's kinda a catch-22.
I try to find things I might be able to do, but it seems like it would still come down to the same issue. I've been cooking and baking a lot lately, and I thought about trying to do like a catering thing.. but as my dad pointed out, catering tends to be really high-stress, you have to deal with bridezillas and stuff, and I couldn't do that.. It'd be the same issue. Anything I think I might be able to do ends up coming down to something else that I can't do.

I had the same shoe issue.. but there was one type of shoes, tretorns, that I would wear. I wore those exact same shoes, with the only difference being the color/pattern on the logo on the side, for years.