Connection between AS and psychosis?

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I have AS and paranoid schizophrenia. I remember an adolescent psychiatrist once said to me that my psychotic episodes were related to AS, but I have forgotten the rest that he said about that connection.

Can anyone enlighten me about this connection, if it exists?

The only thing that's been confirmed is that they tend to run in the same families, right along with genius and creativity.

In some cases, maybe sensory/transition stress related to being autistic can be part of the stress that triggers the genetic predisposition to schizophrenia into becoming the actual condition. That could have been part of your case.

There's also a historical connection; autism was once thought to be a sort of "childhood schizophrenia". We now know they have very little to do with each other.

Thank you for this. You are right about the sensory/transition stress, because I used to relapse often after school ended for holidays, and recently I relapsed after going on holiday (I dislike most kinds of holiday). I also relapsed after I was forced to go to a nightclub.

Kanner distinguished autism from "childhood schizophrenia" which was a common condition found in the children in his clinic . However he belivied that autism was an earlier form and a percursor of schizophrenia which was later disproven by modern research. About Hans Asperger he considered his syndrome a personality trait present from birth rather than a psychotic process. So I guess that no they aren't related.

Ok thanks Wedge.

But my psych said that because of my AS, my schizophrenia is atypical...why?

Check out to what extent autistic symptoms concur with schizophrenic symptoms, particularly in the negative and cognitive symptoms:

http://www.schizophrenia.com/diag.php

I looked at the page and yes, there are quite a few shared symptoms!

This is an interesting topic. I believe a lot of your questions can be answered by reading this book: The Imprinted Brain by Christopher Badcock. I bought it for $20 at Barnes & Noble. A lot of what the people responded with to this post can be found in the book, and there is much more to learn about the Autism/Psychosis connection. I would highly recommend you read it, it is a very interesting phenomenon.

Actually, my brain avatar is on the front cover of the book! lol

I would imagine that autism could make someone more susceptible to psychosis partly based on the empathy problems. If you have trouble understanding other people, putting yourself in their shoes, imagining their motives, then when things go wrong, paranoia could seem very natural. When you have trouble connecting with people, you also have fewer reality checks, it would become easier to start believing irrational thoughts.

However.. looking at the diagnostic criteria, there are so many that overlap. It doesn't make sense to me how, exactly, a solid dual diagnosis is possible. There are a lot of problems in psychiatry with diagnosing any psychotic episode as schizophrenia, when there are quite a few other psychotic disorders. It almost seems to me as though what they're saying is that autism + psychosis = schizophrenia. Certainly, anybody with AS who ever has any psychotic features would therefore meet the diagnostic criteria, but I don't think that that diagnosis would usually be completely accurate. A brief psychotic episode, or a psychosis present only in combination with a mood disorder should not, in my opinion, be diagnosed as schizophrenia-- there are other more accurate diagnoses. But there'd be no way to make the distinction when the "social symptoms of schizophrenia" are already present as features of an autism spectrum disorder. It makes it too easy to diagnose.
I wonder how many people who actually have autism spectrum disorders are misdiagnosed with schizophrenia. I bet there are some with that diagnosis who don't even have significant psychotic features.

There are symptoms that are shared between psychosis and autism. Mainly the negative symptoms but not the positive symptoms. I know people that have been diagnosed with both autism and schizophrenia and its because they also had the positive symptoms such as hallucinations or delusions. I have been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder bipolar type but am doing so much better than a month ago. Last month was horrible, so bad in fact that I had to go to the stupid hospital. I am leaning more toward bipolar type 2 for me rather than "schizoaffective disorder" because I have never had a true manic episode but rather hypomanic ones. The docs claim I have delusions but I don't.

i would think my autism shields me from psychosis in a way.

i am not concerned with external reality as to whether i am liked or even noticed, so i am never paranoid.

i once tried lsd and i had 4 tabs because i felt nothing to begin with.
i became extremely mentally strange, and i sat down and played the piano to a spider i saw in a web in the cornice on the other side of the room.

i thought the spider was very much interested in my song that i made up for him, and he came out of his home web and walked along the ceiling a bit, and i thought he was liking me and the music very much.
i played an excellent spontaneous song for him, but i suddenly realized that it was a delusion, and i put the brakes on, and i had the resolve to go to bed and forget what i thought i experienced, and hunker down and shut my eyes and let the drug be metabolized in me while i was asleep.

but of course i had no sleep and i watched laser light matchstick assemblages of the eiffel tower being constructed in my head over and over again each time assembled in a different sequence.

i do not think i am prone to psychosis because i do not care about fitting in as much as usual people.

when the effects wore off i thought "well that is not something i will return to"

i am not discounting any other assertion in this thread. i am saying what i say in isolation, and only addressed to the topic title.

According to Tony Attwood, in The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome, there is no influence between conditions, they are completely independent.

My son has AS and had a major psychotic break, last December. I was told by his psychiatrist, that it was a result of his stopping his med (zyprexa). He ended up in the hospital, and they put him back on zyprexa along with seraquel. He is still having some psychosis (believes there are people in our front yard, who are yelling things at him) and (also, that he has a girlfriend, that no one else has ever seen). He has also, had trouble with hearing high frequency noise for a long time (even put foil on his ceiling & some walls in his room). He has alot of headaches too. I don't think his meds are quite right yet? Thanks for letting me put my comment, in hopes of finding anyone else with same connection.

There is one thing that occurs in both "schizophrenia" and "autism"... Peptides in urine. They are not identical patterns, but both conditions can benefit immensely from cutting out milk (and gluten!) in diet. A peptide called casomorphine (from casein in milk) is present in both, but especially in "schizophrenia". Are these conditions symptoms of enzyme deficiency? We cannot break down certain proteins, and some of them break down into neuroactive peptides (exorphins) that mess with our brains? Very probably so. Yes. Milk casein from cows milk. Try to avoid. And gluten from wheat, rye, barley. Oats are often ok.
So why enzyme breakdown does not work? Could be genetic, could be environmental. Heavy metals could do this. We are unfortunately exposed to mercury, lead etc more and more.
Check up your heavy metal status.
But even conservers as benzoates and certain colorings in food can give inhibition of the enzyme cutting milk/gluten proteins. The enzyme called dpp4 is suspected. Breaks peptide bonds between proline residues. For the biochemically interested.

ok. the guru of AS (who is NT) states i am wrong so i guess i must be.
how can i argue with "Him" ?

i can say that if ever i heard "voices", i would ignore them as i have ignored all real voices.
they could never tell me anything that i would absorb.

i am very skeptical about what i personally do not calculate to be true, so i am unlikely to be convinced of any "reality" without reasoning it for myself, and that is a hedge against psychosis and if attwood says otherwise then i will remain correct in my silence.

Actually it is a simple statistical calculation, probably done by someone else.


Good, now you can chase down other references.