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timeisdead
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20 Nov 2009, 7:35 pm

It seems they tend to give you a vague feeling that you're doing something wrong but never come out and say exactly what it is until their breaking point. Until then they always use false politeness.



20 Nov 2009, 7:36 pm

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Why are people so afraid of directness?


Fixed :roll:



LabPet
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20 Nov 2009, 7:43 pm

Precisely. And perhaps the the most not-understandable part of Neurotypicals. Although I do like/love many NTs, admittedly, they can be tricky in this way. I believe what you've so aptly described is cognitive dissonance.

No offense NTs (really!) but your psychology can be wickedly painful to those of us (Autists) who just plain don't get it. In certain ways, this is a reason I like being Autistic.

Autists are quite unidirectional: y = m x + b

NTs can be....... X ^2 + Y ^2 = 1
...and they don't tell you where that inflection point is and they sure don't do the math. If only they came equipped with mood rings or other quantifiable signal. But no.


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timeisdead
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20 Nov 2009, 7:44 pm

Spokane_Girl wrote:
Quote:
Why are people so afraid of directness?


Fixed :roll:

It is kind of an NT trait however. They give you subtle signals that something is awry but they never come out and say what it is. If someone has a problem, I prefer direct, blunt, and task oriented talk that uses logic and reason.



20 Nov 2009, 7:47 pm

LabPet wrote:
Precisely. And perhaps the the most not-understandable part of normality. Although I do like/love many people, admittedly, they can be tricky in this way. I believe what you've so aptly described is cognitive dissonance.

No offense people (really!) but your psychology can be wickedly painful to those of us (Autists) who just plain don't get it. In certain ways, this is a reason I like being Autistic.

Autists are quite unidirectional: y = m x + b

people can be....... X ^2 + Y ^2 = 1
...and they don't tell you where that inflection point is and they sure don't do the math. If only they came equipped with mood rings or other quantifiable signal. But no.




Fixed again. :wall:



20 Nov 2009, 7:49 pm

timeisdead wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
Quote:
Why are people so afraid of directness?


Fixed :roll:

It is kind of an NT trait however. They give you subtle signals that something is awry but they never come out and say what it is. If someone has a problem, I prefer direct, blunt, and task oriented talk that uses logic and reason.




What about ret*d people, schizos, Bipolars, manic depressive people, dyslexics, other learning disables, etc.
They all do it don't they?
Thus why NT is a stupid word and I prefer "people." It describes all groups of them, than one group. NT bashing gets old.



timeisdead
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20 Nov 2009, 8:09 pm

Spokane_Girl wrote:
timeisdead wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
Quote:
Why are people so afraid of directness?


Fixed :roll:

It is kind of an NT trait however. They give you subtle signals that something is awry but they never come out and say what it is. If someone has a problem, I prefer direct, blunt, and task oriented talk that uses logic and reason.




What about ret*d people, schizos, Bipolars, manic depressive people, dyslexics, other learning disables, etc.
They all do it don't they?
Thus why NT is a stupid word and I prefer "people." It describes all groups of them, than one group. NT bashing gets old.


Excuse me but it's my right to criticize this type of communication. I'm not "bashing" anyone, just making an observation. It seems you are too sensitive and your feelings are far too easily hurt.



timeisdead
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20 Nov 2009, 8:12 pm

LabPet wrote:
Precisely. And perhaps the the most not-understandable part of Neurotypicals. Although I do like/love many NTs, admittedly, they can be tricky in this way. I believe what you've so aptly described is cognitive dissonance.

No offense NTs (really!) but your psychology can be wickedly painful to those of us (Autists) who just plain don't get it. In certain ways, this is a reason I like being Autistic.

Autists are quite unidirectional: y = m x + b

NTs can be....... X ^2 + Y ^2 = 1
...and they don't tell you where that inflection point is and they sure don't do the math. If only they came equipped with mood rings or other quantifiable signal. But no.


And even if you know what they are feeling, they expect you to do mindread them and know why they're pissed off the get-go, even if their disposition towards you is the same throughout the day.



weatherman90
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20 Nov 2009, 8:27 pm

why are you afraid of something you don't understand?



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20 Nov 2009, 8:31 pm

I don't think it's only NTs... I do it too, I hate when other people don't say their things directly, and I'm very much into problem solving, however I don't go to straight to my parents and say: "Hey I think i have AS."

I'm actually in pain, by not being able to tell them. Therefore I gave them clues, and either they understood it, or else they found out though my cousin.

EDIT: okay, I can see that I didn't read the post probably, but only answered to the title (subject).



Last edited by TheSpecialKid on 20 Nov 2009, 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LabPet
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20 Nov 2009, 8:44 pm

^ Agreed, timeisdead.

I can and do keep my emotion(s) independently exclusive of logic and reason - part of why being in the sciences and my own nature. One characteristic of Autism that is distinct from that which is considered 'normal' or Neurotypical (Lab Pet is writing this sans emotion, just 'what is known') is that Autistics tend to think analytically, that is as if discrete pieces, as opposed to the relatively holistic approach that typifies Neurotypical thought.

I do admire that (certain) NTs have that uncanny ability to be intuitive - that is an asset. But as you wrote - hard for an Autist to know what is the true meaning and therefore how to proceed. If the pathway is obscured, by emotion in this instance, then we can be left quite perplexed.

Hi Spoken_Girl (BTW: cool new avatar): Forgive if I write out of context, but I don't think timeisdead meant any offense. Instead, just noting that perpetual discrepency that echoes that of Autists: Other beings can be just plain hard to figure out and there's no real answer. weatherman90: Unsure.....'afraid' may not be accurate but I am conscientious and wouldn't want to inadvertently make a mistake since I'm not able to "guess" what another may be thinking/feeling since it follows no discernable pattern. There is an aspect of unpredictability that's not 'scary' but unsettling.

Compelling original post! So many Aspies struggle with not being able to "read' another but we can, and do, compensate in other ways.

If I'm interacting with another and they need to express something to me then I do appreciate their being candid and not hiding - that can become even manipulative in worst-case-scenario.

Oooo, this one's tricky: Given NT (yes, even a friend) will ask a question. Implicitly understand that honesty is correct. But they may not really want honest, instead 'what they want to hear.' That's not being direct! But we shouldn't be penalized for giving that honest and direct answer.


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20 Nov 2009, 8:49 pm

TheSpecialKid wrote:
I don't think it's only NTs... I do it too, I hate when other people don't say their things directly, and I'm very much into problem solving, however I don't go to straight to my parents and say: "Hey I think i have AS."

I'm actually in pain, by not being able to tell them. Therefore I gave them clues, and either they understood it, or else they found out though my cousin.


I think I'd be leery too! Because you just cannot know how they'll take that information that is directly conveyed. Communication is hard and there's just no right way. One of our triads of impairment: Communication. And Aspies can be honest to a fault. The dichotomy is that it's one of our best traits too! And why I admire other Autists/AS; our direct honest approach.
(...even if that means tellling her that she does in fact look fat in that skirt) 8O


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20 Nov 2009, 9:00 pm

Could be fear of an angry reaction. I don't really know. Maybe they find it awkward. I find it awkward to say certain things directly.


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20 Nov 2009, 9:26 pm

Its something of a defense mechanism, at least from some observations. If some topic is considered taboo, "double talk" was used to get around it (ie, medieval era people trying to follow Catholicism, but hoping to keep secret their skepticism). Directness throughout history was always treated with one thing: immediate punishment for speaking out. Heh, if you think about it, one can only wonder how many of those on the spectrum died in the past for stating fact over faith. So lying, subtlety, deception, etc are a 1500+ year old mechanism for humans to defend themselves against society . . . ironic.


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timeisdead
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20 Nov 2009, 9:38 pm

PlatedDrake wrote:
Its something of a defense mechanism, at least from some observations. If some topic is considered taboo, "double talk" was used to get around it (ie, medieval era people trying to follow Catholicism, but hoping to keep secret their skepticism). Directness throughout history was always treated with one thing: immediate punishment for speaking out. Heh, if you think about it, one can only wonder how many of those on the spectrum died in the past for stating fact over faith. So lying, subtlety, deception, etc are a 1500+ year old mechanism for humans to defend themselves against society . . . ironic.


My question is why would a person in authority use such indirectness to the people he or she is in charge of? What exactly has that person got to lose? If you're in charge, you have nothing to fear for doing so. In such a situation, one is equipped to handle almost any adverse reactions that may occur.



20 Nov 2009, 9:41 pm

timeisdead wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
timeisdead wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
Quote:
Why are people so afraid of directness?


Fixed :roll:

It is kind of an NT trait however. They give you subtle signals that something is awry but they never come out and say what it is. If someone has a problem, I prefer direct, blunt, and task oriented talk that uses logic and reason.




What about ret*d people, schizos, Bipolars, manic depressive people, dyslexics, other learning disables, etc.
They all do it don't they?
Thus why NT is a stupid word and I prefer "people." It describes all groups of them, than one group. NT bashing gets old.


Excuse me but it's my right to criticize this type of communication. I'm not "bashing" anyone, just making an observation. It seems you are too sensitive and your feelings are far too easily hurt.



Nah, I'm on I2 and Zomg. I even pissed a man off at work because he got upset over a pair of gloves being thrown on the floor by me and said I was stupid and f****d in the head. I just snickered and thought it was funny. Then he contradicts himself by closing the door to the janitor's closet when he saw I was waiting to get in too. Who's stupid now?