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zeldapsychology
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21 Jan 2010, 1:56 pm

While looking at the following
http://help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6 ... d4f6a.html

It mentions not having an identity and being chameleon like. What does that mean? I interpreted it as tries to blend in am I right? Because looking at my past I do that for awhile (first job/College etc.) Then let my true self out which is where the issues start. Thanks.



Asp-Z
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21 Jan 2010, 2:23 pm

Apparently, we think ourselves the same way as we do other people, so we can't understand ourselves properly. I know for sure this is true for me.

As for blending in, that's often an Aspie trait too, but it could very easily just be because we're pressured to be like everyone else pretty much from the moment we're born.



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21 Jan 2010, 2:41 pm

For me, I find when I hang out around people long enough, I start to mimic their behavior rather than be myself.



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21 Jan 2010, 3:05 pm

I'm reminded of the movie "The Talented Mr. Ripley"



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21 Jan 2010, 3:33 pm

I definitely wouldn't say that i blend in.. But i would have to admit that my sense of identity can seem very... umm... blank. Present and past special interests seem to be what fills that blank and make up my identity, if that makes any sense at all.



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21 Jan 2010, 3:58 pm

I have a very strong identity.


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Callista
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21 Jan 2010, 4:24 pm

Same here. My separation from others allows me to have a great deal of insight into my own mind and personality; I've had this confirmed as one of my skills by a couple of counselors who've talked to me. They referred to it as "intrapersonal intelligence", and I think it's how I survived depression, multiple times, without a single suicide attempt.

That trait, the problem of "lack of identity" or "changing identity" reminded me a great deal more of borderline personality disorder--a long-term, sometimes severe problem which gets much more of a bad rap than it deserves. BPD individuals have a great deal of trouble understanding who they are and how they relate to others; they often define themselves by who they are with or who they're in a relationship with, and can get understandably fearful and desperate when those relationships seem threatened (wouldn't you, if it felt like you were losing your identity?). I have known several people with BPD, and while they do have real problems with relationships being too close, too fast, and too intense, they are also some of the most empathetic people I have ever met.


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21 Jan 2010, 5:18 pm

zeldapsychology wrote:
While looking at the following
http://help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6 ... d4f6a.html

It mentions not having an identity and being chameleon like. What does that mean? I interpreted it as tries to blend in am I right? Because looking at my past I do that for awhile (first job/College etc.) Then let my true self out which is where the issues start. Thanks.


I think I have an identity that is much more fluid than other people. I don't compartmentalize nearly as much and I don't have a rigid self-definition. I feel like my brain is 'wider' than alot of people's. I don't know how to explain it. It's like there is 'too much' of me, I fit into too many different categories to truly be one way or the other.



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21 Jan 2010, 10:57 pm

i've never really had much of a self-identity because i never really liked whatever "self" there was to me, due to how others saw/treated me. as far as chameleoning, oh yes. almost my entire conscious life has been an attempt to mimic/emulate/...channel?...various other famous-to-obscure characters and people, and mostly males, interestingly. i think i've only had one female "idol" as it were, and that was frances farmer, and only because i could relate to her situation so much.



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21 Jan 2010, 11:27 pm

subliculous wrote:
as far as chameleoning, oh yes. almost my entire conscious life has been an attempt to mimic/emulate/...channel?...various other famous-to-obscure characters and people, and mostly males, interestingly.


I can relate to that. I used to be a lot like that when i was a kid.



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21 Jan 2010, 11:46 pm

"Chameleon-like" is exactly what I am. I had no idea that was specifically an AS trait, but I've described myself as that since before I'd ever even heard of Asperger's. I can blend in wherever at least passably 95% of the time, but aside from some very deep-down intellectual fundamentals (which may or may not even have any bearing on my personality), I really have no clue who I actually am.

My inner monologue does not even address me by name--not my own, not ANY name.


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22 Jan 2010, 9:35 am

I'm no chameleon. I have neither mimicked anyone or tried to blend in.

I am quiet and occupied with my own stuff, and so I seem to go unnoticed by some, while provoking others. People either really notice me negatively or don't appear to notice me. (I say appear, because if they do noice and simply ignore, I wouldn't know unless they told me.
I've never made any attempt to blend in anywhere. I seem to stay out of (some) people's field of notice, simply by staying by myself and keep doing whatever I'm there to do or am off in my own thoughts, not by doing something at all to blend in. There is a difference.

My sense of identity is strong and I do well at so-called inner intelligence. Well, I'm both introverted and introspective, so I should know myself.


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22 Jan 2010, 4:23 pm

zeldapsychology wrote:
While looking at the following
http://help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6 ... d4f6a.html

It mentions not having an identity and being chameleon like. What does that mean? I interpreted it as tries to blend in am I right? Because looking at my past I do that for awhile (first job/College etc.) Then let my true self out which is where the issues start. Thanks.


I remember hearing Attwood in some radio interview talk about AS people mimicking others and that being chameleon like. So yeah, blending in, by adopting other people's expressions, kind of. He talked like it was a common AS female thing. (I personally doubt it's universal, and not totally exclusive to AS women, IMHO, but I'm getting OT here.)


Here's the radio show, if you're interested, BTW:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/aspergerwo ... es-of-fema



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22 Jan 2010, 6:34 pm

Chameleon behavior has to do with mimicing others. This has to do with rote memorizing of social utterances, phrases, inflection, intonation and accents. Some people with autism can copy accents very well. I copy phrases. My language can change quite wildly.

Self-identity is hard one to understand. One of the problems in understanding this trait is that self-reflection in an autie (well, atleast myself) appears different than NT self-reflection. I am often told that I am insightful and very philosophical, both of which I doubt. This is because my self-reflection uses fuzzy logic as a coping mechanism to avoid rigid thinking in social situations. Certainly, I find reading a book of philosophy more inherent to how I think than reading an autobiography.cI have always thought that my thinking can be abnormally metacognitive which would appear philosophical. but I always have some doubts reading psychological literature that says autie's lack self-identity because it is written from a NT standpoint: possibly a person may not appear to have a strong identity, but in fact they may have one. I can be a very difficult person to read.

Self-identity also involves self-awareness. Certainly there are people with autism who struggle with self awareness - such as a detachment from their emotions (not knowing how they feel, not presenting what they feel), a 'detachment' from their senses (clumsiness, lack of feeling) and a detachment from thought processes. I can quite often come to a conclusion or an answer to a problem without ever thinking about it. "Show your work" in math class was pointless for me because it involved writing down the answer and then working backwards. Not reciprocating emotions to a NT person can be interpreted as being "depersonal" - something I saw a lot of in my college days :roll:

I wouldn't trust me though, I probably read this all somewhere else.



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22 Jan 2010, 7:56 pm

MrTeacher wrote:
Chameleon behavior has to do with mimicing others. This has to do with rote memorizing of social utterances, phrases, inflection, intonation and accents. Some people with autism can copy accents very well. I copy phrases. My language can change quite wildly.

Self-identity is hard one to understand. One of the problems in understanding this trait is that self-reflection in an autie (well, atleast myself) appears different than NT self-reflection. I am often told that I am insightful and very philosophical, both of which I doubt. This is because my self-reflection uses fuzzy logic as a coping mechanism to avoid rigid thinking in social situations. Certainly, I find reading a book of philosophy more inherent to how I think than reading an autobiography.cI have always thought that my thinking can be abnormally metacognitive which would appear philosophical. but I always have some doubts reading psychological literature that says autie's lack self-identity because it is written from a NT standpoint: possibly a person may not appear to have a strong identity, but in fact they may have one. I can be a very difficult person to read.

Self-identity also involves self-awareness. Certainly there are people with autism who struggle with self awareness - such as a detachment from their emotions (not knowing how they feel, not presenting what they feel), a 'detachment' from their senses (clumsiness, lack of feeling) and a detachment from thought processes. I can quite often come to a conclusion or an answer to a problem without ever thinking about it. "Show your work" in math class was pointless for me because it involved writing down the answer and then working backwards. Not reciprocating emotions to a NT person can be interpreted as being "depersonal" - something I saw a lot of in my college days :roll:

I wouldn't trust me though, I probably read this all somewhere else.

I'll trust you in this, it all seems plausible and resonates with me.



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22 Jan 2010, 8:53 pm

Callista wrote:
Same here. My separation from others allows me to have a great deal of insight into my own mind and personality; I've had this confirmed as one of my skills by a couple of counselors who've talked to me. They referred to it as "intrapersonal intelligence", and I think it's how I survived depression, multiple times, without a single suicide attempt.


I can relate almost completely. I did attempt suicide a few times but I believe that it was my intrapersonal intelligence that allowed me to discover many things about myself after these attempts and there for recover from my depression. Unfortunately it's reoccuring.

I don't think I have ever been chameleon-like. My attempts at blending in with my surroundings have been futile. I've been better at hiding away so no one notices I'm here, like a burrowing animal.


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