In desperate need of advise

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Im not really sure where to start, or even if Im posting this in the right place on this site. I apologize if this isnt where it belongs, but looking through your forums it seems to fit best here.

Okay, now to the starting, to warn you all this will be a little lengthy and I thank you in advance if you can bear with it to the end, if not I certainly understand.

I am a 31 yr old male who recently moved his 32 yr old brother out to live him. The reason that I moved him out here is because of he has been unemployed for the past 3 yrs after holding down a job for 8. He was becoming a burden on my aging mother and with the extremely rural location of their home he was just not able to get anywhere to find a job.

A little background on my brother would probably be helpful. He is the third child out of 5, I am the fourth. From everything my parents have told me their pregnancy with him was normal until his birth at which point his body rejected his blood and his blood was changed over 7 times before the problem was corrected. I have been closest with this brother than any of the other 3 since the 4th grade. When he completed 4th grade he passed, but for some reason or another that my parents never explained to me and still wont give me a real definitive answer to this day , they held him back. Now we were in the same grade together, which was cool and fine. But soon I came to realize that I was now my brothers protector.

As I said before we grew up in a very small town, the school we attended was a K-12 all in one building with a cow field on one side, a corn field on the other. My brother who I will call Bob from now on was always rather socially awkward and just not able to build relationships with others. This of course in a small town made him a target that I was told by my parents that it was my job to defend since he wouldnt do it himself. Throughout school my parents ensured that we always had the same classes on the same schedule. Bob didn't have any problems with the school work and graduated with NYS Regents diploma in History and English, but the social awkwardness never went away.

Then came college. He applied and was turned down at the school I applied to, but with some letter writing my mother ( a very influential person in her own right ) got him and got him put in the dorm room across the hall from mine. My college years went much like my highschool years with much of my concentration on making sure my brother knew where he was going, how to get to his classes, how to make a schedule, etc, etc, etc. I tried taking him to parties and having him join in in activities that myself and my friends were doing. The awkwardness continued to the point if he did attend a function he would sit completely alone in the corner speaking only when spoken to. He graduated with a BA in History with only an extra year to make up some failed courses (not very uncommon nowadays) In the last year of college I broke away somewhat and became rather selfish wanting my own life, Im not really proud of that decision but I think it was necessary for my own mental sanity.

After college I began to lose contact with Bob as well as the rest of my family (which is a whole other long story in itself) But I had to get away and I moved to SC which didnt work out, long story short I wound up living in a city about 5 hours away from my parents house and had very little contact with any of my family. Through the contact I did have I learned that 3 yrs ago ( I found out at the time ) that Bob had had a series of explosions directed at customers at the supermarket where he worked and finally got his walking papers. He had held down this job for 8 years. Because of location and his lack of a drivers license or car he was not able to find other employment and from what Im told began spending his entire life in front of the tv and trolling internet forums. My mother after recieving nothing but crying and whining whenever he was asked to clean or help around the house finally took away his internet access. From what Im told again...he flipped out, stole my parent's modem, went down to the local river, smashed the modem and threw the pieces in costing my parents 100 dollars for a replacement.

When I heard this I figuired that he needed to get out of the rural environment and try to get some form of a life going. In the city he would have access to busses and jobs and people besides his parents. So me and my fiance offered a room to him in our small city apt. When he first got out here, it had been around 5 years since I had really had a chance to know my brother. I explained to him the ground rules of him living here, mainly simple respect especially for my fiance. I also explained to him before he moved out here that he was expected to look for work, help with the housework, and not spend 24/7 sitting in front of the computer screen. All things he agreed to.

So it has now been 3 months since he moved out here, he is working part time at Walmart and seems to be doing well, the only problem is transportation which me and my fiance have been providing while trying to work out our own schedules with one car, and unfortunately his schedule often puts him at work till after midnight so it makes it rather hard, but we have been doing it for him.

The problems come, and the part I need help with is, he cannot seem to operate without someone constantly hounding him about his responsibilities, simple things that he is told over and over are still not done, and if anything is said about him not meeting his obligations he begins to sob and runs to the bathroom and cries for a half hour or more. No matter how I bring situations up, it comes down to me "yelling" at him and I make him feel bad. Where as I will admit that I have lost my temper on occasion, it is the minority of the time. I myself have worked 5 years now with the developmentally disabled in a freestanding respite and consider my temperment to be very good.

About a month ago, I tried to discuss several things that were not being accomplished in favor of him spending all of his time sitting in front of the computer screen while I paid all his bills. He got extremely upset when I told him that I might start restricting his access to the computer and went to church ( a friend of mine drives him there every sunday ) and after church threw a fit and told my friend to take him to the bus station. She called me and I asked her to bring him back here and not get in the middle of it. So she does (he wound up burning the bridge with her through this incident) and he walks off into parts of the city unknown to him (the ghetto at that) to try to find the bus station.

So after hours of searching the city I finally find him and talk him into talking things out with me. So everything becomes fine and dandy after several more hours of lengthy discussion where I was accused of bringing him out to the city for his money (which he has none of and myself and my fiance spent over 1000 dollars just bringing him out and buying him clothing and other needed items).

Everything has been going relatively fine until about 2 days ago. When the first incident happened I took away his computer access and he actually began meeting his obligations, when he convinced me that he could use it in moderation and still get his responsibilities taken care of I gave him back access. Well long story short, any time he is not at work he is on the computer, things are not getting done, so I had told him if this happened the computer was going to be offlimits, so I took away his access.

This once again upset him greatly and I didnt really see him until this morning when I arrived home from work. I was waiting up to drive him in so he could avoid a 2 hour bus ride. He wakes up and comes out to the living room, I say good morning and he brushes me off walking by to go get himself breakfast. He then returns with his breakfast to the living room, I ask him how work was last night. He replied that it was okay he guessed, I asked him why only okay and he ignored me, I asked again thinking that maybe he didnt hear me and he replies that he told me all I need to know. I asked if this was about the computer and he stated over and over that I know what I did. At this point I told him if he was going to ignore me and treat me like that that he could take his breakfast to his room cuz I didnt really need to deal with that attitude and that he could take the bus into work, but if he was ready to talk things out with me like a man he knew where to find me ...until then I really didnt want to see him. Probably pretty harsh of me, but Im only human and I did just get home from a stressful 15 hour shift.

So he stayed in his room for a while, and then dressed and left. Now I only know where he is from a worried call from my mother saying he is lost in the city and he is going to cab it to work and then back to my place after work (when I will be at work) to collect his clothes and he is going to a hotel to live there. Problem comes is he only recently starting working and has no money. He does however have a credit card that he says he doesnt care about maxing out with this plan of his. A credit card that he cant pay off due to him only working part time and will barely have money to meet his basic needs none the less the cost of a hotel room.

I told him that he ever took off again I wasnt going to come looking for him which is what I know in my heart that he wants to happen. But he will not call me at this poitn and will not talk to me. In the end I will wind up finding him and making this situation better, Im his brother its my job, its been my job the majority of my life.

I dont really know what Im looking for here, he doesnt have a diagnosis, although I feel he does have some form of autism. But how do I bring up having him tested? My mother brought it up to him once and it recieved a violent reaction that he then ran away from. As much as I love my brother, I love my fiance and I cant have my relationship with her torn asunder, which is happening more and more as time goes on. Our entire lives have become babysitting my older brother.

Im sorry if parts of this came across as selfish on my part, Im not trying to paint myself as a martyr or anything of the sort, Im not perfect, but I truly do want to help him if I can, I just dont know how.

For anyone who actually made it this far, I do appreciate you taking the time and consideration to read this and any and all help, suggestions, or resources are greatly appreciated.

-Shogun

Kinda sounds like I guy I know whom I've worked with, ironicly at a grocrey store also.

Sounds like the stress of dealing with customers interupting his work routine got the best of him.

What shift did he work on? What did he do? For the most part I work on third shift, but I was forced to spend 18 months working on second shift and it was the worst time of my life.

It seems like he can work just fine if other people just stay out of his way, or am I over simplifing things here?

Wow. That is Quite The Post. Let me just take a few points:

- We didn't get a whole lot of insight into your brother's behaviors other than his tendency towards doing his own thing and his outbursts. Anything else that makes you think he could be on the spectrum?

- Speaking of doing his own thing, it sounds like you and your fiance are doing the right thing to rein him in. Two suggestions I can offer: first, and not to turn you into a spy or anything, but check the History folder in Firefox or Internet Explorer to see where he's been and what he's been up to if you're in doubt. Short of that, just give him an hour or two a day of surf time, but ONLY after he finishes his obligations. Nothing gets done, no computer that day. Period.

- Next, the credit card. I have a bad sense that you, your fiancee and your brother could all get dragged into hell if he retains sole control of the card. This may seem radical, but if he's really that unconcerned about maxing that card out, you may have to wrest it away from him at least until he gets a little more money under his belt. You might need to act as a "purchase agent" where he tells you what he needs (not what he wants, but needs), and you buy it for him. Make him understand that it's his money he's going to use to pay the bill each month, and if he can't meet the obligation, he'll have to find his own way out. Sounds tough, but if it gets the point across, it'll be worth it.

- As for you and your fiancee, sometimes you've just gotta compromise. I don't know if she knew about your brother going in, or if she did how open she was to the possibility of being a caretaker to him. All I can say to that point is just try and stick together through this.

- Given the response your brother gave the last time anyone brought up testing him, I'd handle that one gingerly. Check around for doctors who can discuss ways of diagnosing him without seeing him in person. If you can't find any, you might just have to bite the bullet and drag him kicking and screaming into the office.

You and your finacee have a lot on your plate. I wish you the best in dealing with your brother. There's plenty of info here for you from people who've been in situations like yours. And if you need to take a time-out and decompress, just drop a line and we can talk. Looking forward to seeing more of you here - keep us posted with how things are going.

Zed

I'm so sorry your brother didn't get whatever mental health and welfare services were available when younger. It certainly sounds like he needed/needs them. Please call your local mental health or social services departments and whatever referral organizations are in your area and get reinforcements for yourself.

It sounds, on the one hand, like your brother needs to be in a group home or some other sort of assisted living situation, where professionals can work with him on a daily basis. He may benefit from some sort of medication as well. Hard to say. Without having a historical file to show social services, I doubt you'd be able to get him into such care (if it's the same where you are as where I am) if he does not want it. But if he refuses to be tested, he is an adult - and that is out of your control. If a court determines he is unable to make rational decisions, he can be forceably placed in a care situation. It is, however, extremely difficult to get someone declared incompetent.

Sorry to sound harsh here, but on the other hand, it could also be that your brother is an extremely manipulative NT who simply has social maladjustment problems and is sponging off you. It certainly sounds as if your mother enabled the behaviors for his entire life. If he's had temper problems in the past, did he ever really have any serious consequences to his behaviors? Or was it just brushed aside as part of "his condition?" Did your mother make him replace the modem? Or did she just buy another herself? Hard to say from out here what's going on.

In any event, he's a grown man. If he wants to run away because he doesn't get what he wants, then let him go.

If he's NT, perhaps a few days and nights living on the streets will clue him in to the fact that he's damned lucky to have a brother who is willing to let him in his home. If he's living in your home, you set the rules. If he doesn't follow them, he needs to be out of there. Period. And not gone after and taken back whenever he has a tantrum. He needs to be coming back and asking for forgiveness, not having you feel guilty and going out an looking for him. That just plays into his game. One of the first things a good parent teaches a child is that there are logical consequences for their actions. And a parent had better be incredibly consistant on that or they'll end up raising a monster.

If it's that he is on the spectrum and does have issues serious enough to be disabling, or if he's mentally ill, if he's out on the streets wandering around and non-functional for any length of time, you may have an easier time of convincing the authorities he needs help. Also harsh, I know, but having had to deal with social services in the past, I know that you pretty much have to set yourself on fire before they can free up resources to help you.

Then again, he may pick up his life and do ok. He is a grown man. Perhaps he needs a chance to prove that, to whatever extent that may be.

The very best of luck to you and your girlfriend, and I hope things work out. The rest of his life is a very long time for you to be living with this. I wouldn't advise trying to without a support system for YOU in place. And some help finding out why you continue to feel as if you have to "fix" him.

Last edited by Nan on 22 Mar 2006, 4:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

This is good, but it's not good. I understand the circumstances, but why didn't you give him a chance?

To start...thank you for your replies. I have a minor question...Im not sure what the term NT is refering to, I have an inkling but I dont want to assume things.

A little more insight into my brother. The best way to describe him actually...I guess I should have put it in the first post but there was so much busting out of my head, is that he acts like a 12 yr old stuck in a grown mans body. Its hard to describe, but tv for example...now Im prone to watch cartoons, but he primarily watches programing on tv designed for age ranges of 10 or below. Ive noticed that since he's been out here that he has a lack of fine motor skills. Every movement he makes seems like a very purpose driven action, even down to breathing, Ive never heard someone force breathing so hard I could hear them over my 5.1 system but him I can hear. When he eats he grasps the fork or spoon like a shovel, its just so many small things that reek to me of some sort of developmental delay.

In response to his job, he worked mostly 2nd shift, but would be required to work others now and then. From what he has told me himself, the episodes with customers came out of frustration from the fact that they had promoted him to cashier from helping hand, but were still mainly using him in the prior capicity. He does seem to work much better if he has a set routine and knows exactly what he has to accomplish and by when. I know at least from what Ive noticed at home that when that routine is interupted or even threatened to be interrupted is when he gets the most angry.

Again ...thank you for all your responses and support, my fiance thanks you as well, it was more than I could have hoped for in coming here as a random.

Larsenjw, Im not sure what you mean by why I didnt give him a chance. With everything Ive asked of him Ive given him multiple chances, at least Ive tried. I may just be misinterpreting what you were saying though.

Last edited by Shogun on 22 Mar 2006, 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This is probably a good observation knowing that some people do have a sibling.

Some people treat their brothers and sisters like friends, so they share stories with them and a lot more, I'm sure.

This friendship is coupled with the "love" you have for your brother or sister, so it's like you have both likeness and love for your sibling at the same time.

Is this how you feel about your brother?

NT = Neurotypicals ('normal' people)

To tell you honestly...Im not sure how I feel about him, I mean I love him, hes my brother and Ive been there for him his whole life. But on the other hand, its hard to have a friendship with someone who will not communicate with you and when anything goes wrong in his life I become the target of hatred. We did have that friend bond as well when we were young, but it seems to have disappeared over time. So ....Im yeah...Im not sure.

Thank you tequila...that was what I was thinking but as I said I did not want to assume

I have a non-relative adult aspie living in my spare bedroom. This will sound harsh but you have to set rules that let you keep your sanity and him to learn how to fuction on his own. If he can't, or won't, live by reasonable rules, he needs to live on the street for a while. As was said, he will then change or get the help he needs.

What has worked well for the man living in my house is to go to the County's Vocational Rehab Center. It started with simple things...a gentleman to help GH (the individual living in my house) practice interview skills and ideas on how to get job leads. When it proved that that wasn't enough support, the Vo-Rehab paid for GH to go to a doctor and get a diagnoises. More intense training, resume help, and job leads where then the norm. As this proved not to be enough support, they helped him get medical insurance so that physical and mental health issues could be addressed, now drive him to interviews, and work with employers on what would be reasonable accomidations.

I strongly suggest you look into Vocational Rehab.

BeeBee

I hope things work out for you.

Thanks again to everyone...I just wanted to drop a quick update, I convinced my brother to come home last night, and he agreed to testing (for the moment), and to sit down and talk with myself and my fiance last tonight about what needs to change and what we are all going to have to do if this is going to work out. So keep your fingers crossed for me.

BeeBee, that sounds like great advise and Im going to look into it, I think if I could get him help of that sort it would help alot with everything. Thank you.

Once again, I cannot reitterate enough how much the support you all have shown has helped in a time of need and it is appreciated.

I have read this advice with very mixed feelings. The important point is, as others already noted, that Shogun's brother is an adult. I think that the official diagnosis may be very valuable, but doctor's opinion won't be worth more than the paper it was written on unless Bob accepts it. Assuming that he has AS, it will probably be the best if he could determine it himself, rather than just be told. It may be beneficial to provide him with literature that would present AS in a good light, pointing that many aspies are college graduates, and one is even a Nobel laureate. Maybe it would be good to avoid the word "autism" in the beginning, as it has many negative stereotypical connotations.

Shogun, regarding Bob's inability to do chores and other tasks he is assigned, I would like to point out that executive dysfunction and motivation problems seem to be common among aspies (from what I've heard and, also, observed about myself). I don't want to excuse his behavior, but it may be that he genuinely wants do what you require of him, but forgets about it, can't force himself, or simply doesn't know where to start. You may be surprised that this may be the case even for very simple tasks. If so, then it may be better to help him make these tasks manageable, rather than use a punishment approach. Regarding Internet access, for many autistic people it is a lifeline to the world, and so withdrawing it would surely be very frustrating. Maybe the solution would be to designate hours for household chores, and restrict Internet access during this time for the whole household. Many inexpensive routers can automatically enforce such a restriction for specified hours and days of week.

Another issue is the future, as it doesn't appear from your posts that current arrangement could continue indefinitely. Is there any chance of your brother becoming independent (i.e. living in his own home/apartment, and able to support himself financially, at least on a basic level)? Please note that such problems as inability to drive, cook, do chores or manage bills are all surmountable with some help, and thus not serious obstacles to independent living (even though some people consider them as such). The most important aspect is, of course, money - rent is not free. Which leads us to the next question: can Bob obtain and sustain a better paying job?

Shogun, I hope you will solve current difficulties, both short and long term. You seem a very good brother, if I am allowed to say that.

Edit: I am glad that your brother is back with you.

You're welcome! It sounds like things have worked out with you!