Is this what people are about?

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Since re-entering the real world the past year, I've noticed a disturbing trend with people. I was dating an attractive woman...not a model, but better than the average girl...and when my friend (who was my friend for years) met her, he flirted with her online deliberately just to spite me and then denied it. A similar situation happened recently. I was forming a band with a friend who was busy at the time, and the drum player (who I found on craigslist) was getting impatient and basically said that he just wanted me in the band anyway and wasn't impressed with my friend...and wanted me to ask the friend's dad if we could use his studio. So we jammed one more time and musically it wasn't working out...now he's talking to my friend and the father about him recording in their studio...basically just using them for what they have.

I hate to think the world is this cut-throat, but is this the risk you run when you try to make a life for yourself?

I don't know, I've basically opted out on making a life for myself. I think some people's moral compass is dictated by trend and we're moving into a "caring and sharing" phase now that everybody is broke. It's all phony and the next "me" decade that rolls around they'll all be espousing the merits of selfishness. I don't think I can compete in that world.

Yes.

That's called maniplulation, NTs love doing it.

To be fair, though, we all do it. Say you're at work and there's someone you don't like, but they work in your department. You'll talk to them everyday anyway, and why? So YOU can keep YOUR job to get YOUR money.

You could actually argue that there's nothing you can do that's completely selfless. Everyone is selfish.

Last edited by Asp-Z on 03 Feb 2010, 3:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

There are people like that out there and there always have been, but as my Machiavelli score is barely above midline I can honestly say I do not believe it is the norm. To an extent people are programed to take care of themselves, but we are also hardwired towards cooperative behavior. In the past people who were branded as "loners" or just out for themselves were basically driven out of the collective. We are also hardwired to react more favorably towards those who do the most to help the tribe.

These days it is easier for the less altruistic to get by, but people in general still prefer those that are helpful.

I don't do this, and even when I've had jobs, I've just ignored those people and did what was asked of me. Also, I never brown-nosed bosses, I just did the work I was supposed to.

For an honest person like myself, there's no reason for me to leave the house and join that world. I don't use people or take advantage of other people's weaknesses. I genuinely love my family, so while they support me, we have a healthy relationship anyway and get along great.

This is another reason I also have trouble in the dating scene. As bad as I would like a romantic life, not at the cost of other people's feelings or for my own selfish interests.

This makes me think of the "play to win" theory of gaming. That is... anything you can do to get you a win regardless if it is cheating or not is OKAY to do. The idea behind this has a more in-depth explanation that doesn't apply to to the topic of this thread, however I can only think of "no morales" or "self-respect". Getting a win regardless if it is cheating or not is irrelevant.

In the topic, acquiring something useful to ones self regardless of those you abuse, hurt, or manipulate around them is completely irrelevant so long as they got what they wanted. Not everyone is like this, but I see too many like this. It is one thing to look out for ones self, it is another to thing entirely to be selfish.

Sorry, I like to win at games and especially do well at life but I tend to feel bad for taking advantage of others. I have abused many a thing in games simply to surprise others, not out any grandiose idea that I've won out of sheer skill (when I clearly cheated). I guess I have too much honesty or morales or whatever to take advantage of people.

Today I was playing a game and was playing it completely FAIRLY and I felt bad for my opponent who I was doing so much better than. That was odd because I've never really felt bad for my opponents before.

My parents, particularly my spectrummy father, were very particular about teaching my siblings and I about the farther consequences of behaving in that manner. First of all, if you cheat to win, you won't really know how great your real skills are and secondly, when you act in a way that makes the world more difficult for other people, you are ultimately making the world more crappy for yourself.

Right, but the "play to win" theory goes on a higher level. The idea behind it is that when one uses some kind of unfair advantage in a game due to a bug or something similar, you learn about it and therefore have developed a skill in countering it and thus have improved upon yourself. This is actually true, because the same can be said in the terms of fairness and not cheating. The more you learn, the better you will be. I don't cheat when I am playing seriously. It helps to fool around in games though so you learn all you can!

I used the "play to win" theory of gaming though as an example of people playing "life" to "win". Some people will do as much as their limitations allow. Mine are pretty limiting, thus I am not very manipulative. Others are much less limited and thus are likely to "gain" more. Of course, cheating in life comes with its own consequences of varying variety where as cheating in a game usually has less, unless of course you can punch your pal in the face for doing it!

-edit- silly typo fixed

Yes I think that kind of behaviour is quite common. It's always been a problem for me because I've got enough trouble keeping my own behaviour acceptable, and it complicates things when the other person turns out to be being sneaky and competitive. It's often difficult to know for sure whose behaviour is in need of correction - mine or theirs - especially with partners when there's often nobody else watching who might be able to tell me who's stepping over the line.

These days I just keep an eye on the good or harm that any individual in my life seems to be doing, and anybody who crosses too far over my line will be pushed away towards the perimeter of my circle of friends. Manipulative behaviour like your musical acquaintance's would result (more or less) in a state of excommunication. I don't make a fuss, I just become less attentive and co-operative towards them.

Never happened to me that I know of.

I once found myself in the situation of your first friend. One of my school friends had invited me to hang out and his girlfriend was there, we exchanged e-mails and talked quite a bit online. I took a different road than your friend, however, once it had finally sunk in that I was flirting with a friend's girlfriend, I told him.

The fact that I'm no longer friends with that person is an indicator on how he took it. Still, it was the correct thing to do as I valued our friendship above what would've been no more than a meaningless fling, sadly he did not see it that way. Go figure.

Edit: *sigh* I forgot to make my point.

Not only do some NT's (most of the ones I've met though) decieve and manipulate as naturally and often as they breathe, they seem to have a very low tolerance when they're the ones on the recieving end. Even if there's no deception, the mere possibility seems to be reason enough to sever long-standing bonds.

Yes...unfortunatley, yes.

yes...if you go watch monkeys at the zoo you see alot of this stuff. not from all of the monkeys but there are definitely some of them like this.

I so don't want to do anything online as far as with anyone because of the evidence of what they might be doing that is out there for anyone to see...I'm so over that drama, it feels like the third grade.

Well when I sent an email to the guy saying "I know you're using him and I think it's horrible" he sent me a threatening voice message...how he sent it, I have no idea, because I didn't receive a call beforehand...he told me, don't mess with him, using the f word every two seconds, and that it's none of my business. The guy is a nutjob. While it doesn't directly affect my life, and I'm probably going to just ignore it to avoid any further contact, it's just disheartening that I try to start a band, and instead meet a wacko drummer.

He's not a nutjob, he's just your average dude who's trying to intimidate you because he's concerned you'll throw a wrench into his recording plans. I wouldn't bother with that (arguably it really isn't your business anyway) but I'm personally far too abrasive a person to not at the very least reiterate my point.

Something like:

"Of course it's none of my business. It's also not worth my time to f**k over some punk who's scrapping just to have the awesome once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to record in some random dude's dad's basement. You're hitting the big time son! You rock god, you. Don't read too deep into it big guy, I just think you're an as*hole. F**k yourself."


What's the worst that could happen? He won't do anything to you if he still wants to record with your friend. He knows you hold all the cards in the situation, and in intimidating you he's just trying to convince you that's not the case.