Autism in relation to ADD

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People might come to this thread to spurt their opinions on ADD in relations to Autism (and vice-versa.)

To some it may seem like a contradiction: Aspies pay attention to detail, and can focus, but ADD people have short attention spans. So how do you think it plays out for someone who subosidly has ADD and AS?

This might be a very interesting discussion. I'm excited to hear what you guys have to say about it.

Well to be fair im rather skeptical of these multiple diagnosis in people anyway.

The combo's ive come across don't make much sense to me

Though it does seem sometimes what you get labelled with is purely down to what assessor you see

Personally I see alot of similairites between Dyspraxics and Aspergers but having worked with alot of dyspraxics in recent months i have come to find the minute differances. There are some who have both diagnosis and i think really the only significant differance of dyspraxia to aspergers is they have far more motor and co-ordination problems then aspies do.

THis is clearly why neurodiversity requires more sketching out

Seems to me you can have a subject that really interests you,grabs you and holds you, and be scatterbrained about every mundane detail of life-(Thats me).

The Adhd community referes to obseesing as hyperfocussing and they consider it one of their strong points to.

As someone who was diagnosed with both (AS first) I can tell you it plays out rather poorly.

I get periods of intense focus, where I don't do anything else. This could be a few hours to a few weeks. I have problems stopping to do anything else, including eat.

On the other hand, most of the time I'm very scattered. Can't pay attention to anything for very long. I make lists of things then lose the lists. I make lists of lists and somehow they disappear as well. Yesterday I forgot it was Wednesday and missed an appointment with my shrink.

For me anyway that's how it is. Very little control over my attention.

I was DX's ADD 23 years ago....(self DX'd AS a few months ago)

I'm all about details,.... always have been.
And can focus intently/obsessively on something as long as I have a genuine interest in it. School was never an issue as long as I liked the subject.

Hyper-focusing in those with ADD is not all that uncommon unless I'm mistaken. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

What would better reflect you as people then?
a multiple diagnosis?

Or an entirely new diagnosis which is a hybrid of ADD/ADHD and aspergers syndrome?

You see for me i find the whole multiple diagnosis phenomina an oddity particularly when you encounter people with multiple (talking 3+ here) diagnosis i find it kind of crazy how you can be all these conditions all at the same time

Aspie definetly describes my social behavior, but not my lack of organization.
Adhd doesn't explain my shyness or occasional mean streak.
Thre used to be a Dx called ADD predominately inatentive that would have been hard to distinguish from Aspergers.
Prefer? I'd prefer to be just a really smart NT.,but I don't get to pick.

Well by prefer I mean what kind of a label would better suit you in your opinion? See to me it just sounds like sloppy assessment wanting to give you an answer but then not having an exact fit as it were

And I know there are cross overs in ADD/ADHD with aspergers I am going out with someone is ADHD and we certainly make for an interesting couple I know the condition you mean i have been playing catch up on my knowledge of ADHD from the literature and personal experiances of my girl friend.

I have both AS and ADD (inattentive type). I have trouble socialising, and I am socially impulsive. I ignore details that I don't care about, and remember details that I do. I have intense focus for long periods of time on topics that interest me. On topics that don't, I may (not always) have an intense focus but for an extremely short period of time. If I don't have that intense focus for a short period time on topics that don't interest me, I won't focus on it at all. I generally follow a rigid routine. I am disorganised for the most part, but I am anal retentive about certain things.

If you look at the diagnostic criteria for both in the DSM-IV, rather than go by common misconceptions about ADD, you'll see that it is quite possible to have both.

ADD/ADHD Diagnostic Criteria

A. Either (I) or (II):

I. six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

1. often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities
2. often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities
3. often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
4. often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)
5. often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
6. often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)
7. often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)
8. is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
9. is often forgetful in daily activities

II. six (or more) of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Hyperactivity
1. often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
2. often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected
3. often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)
4. often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly
5. is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor"
6. often talks excessively

Impulsivity
7. often blurts out answers before questions have been completed
8. often has difficulty awaiting turn
9. often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games)

B. Some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7 years.

C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).

D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder).

AS Diagnostic Criteria

A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

1. marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity.

B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, non-functional routines or rituals
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia.

Thanks for sharing that string of data, Bec. That was very interesting.

Even ADDers can overfocus if they are motivated.

As for myself, I don't have an ADD dx though I do realize I have some symptoms of inattention. Sometimes I find it difficult to direct my attention towards something for longer periods. I adore reading, but frequently I can't read for very long. My mind wanders, I get distracted, etc., so some books I go through very slowly. Others fairly fast. It just depends, despite that I want to read them all.

Sometimes my attention span conforms to my will with the proper environment. Other times, it just plain won't. It's very frustrating because many times there is so much that I want to read but I just don't get through it. Some books I never finish and many I don't even start.

As for what the DSM says, about ASDs and ADHDs not occuring together, I think that's ridiculous since BOTH sets of disorders are only behaviorally defined anyways, and if BOTH sets of behaviors are there, then both diagnoses are applicable. They suspect the Attention Deficit Disorders aren't even the same disorder across the board, just a hodgepodge of behavioral similarities. And if this is the general opinion, it makes very little sense to refuse an ADD or ADHD dx to a person with an ASD as well.

It is possible—as long as you ignore Criterion E of ADHD:

My two new hatreds are the words spectrum and DSM. These are the two reasons why I can't nail a diagnosis down. That and a cheap ass insurance company that puts me with a psychologist who is unqualified to figure it out. It was so much easier for my brother. He has ADHD(emphasis on the H) and he got diagnosed as a kid. This is the first time on either side of my family that anyone had actually gotten diagnosed before. So everything I did was compared to my brother's condition. I'm not commiting felonies, I'm not hyper and running amuck all over the place, I'm not a motormouth, and they're not constantly receiving phone calls from my teachers about my behavior. Their conclusion: there is nothing wrong with me, and anything I do wrong is because I'm lazy. I had no help. I had to figure out consessions and to cope with my problems by myself so I could function. In elementary and the beginning of middle school, I had amazing teachers who tried to understand me and helped me whenever they could. After that I was in deep s***. I tried going to my parents, and all they did was get mad at me. They said I just wasn't trying enough. Now, I'm twenty years old, and I can finally go to someone that can help me. Except it's always you have this part of the symptoms, but you don't do this. My doctor can help me with this, but he doesn't know what to do for that. So far we've been going through Inattentive ADD, OCD, Aspergers, Tourettes, SID. I just wish it wasn't so complicated, and people wouldn't have to go through all this just to find out what's wrong with them.

The symptoms do not occur exclusively in a Pervasive Developmental Disorder. For example, I have symptoms that generally only appear in people with ADD, and I have symptoms that only appear in people with AS. That's how it works. I am not a psychologist, so I can't explain further. I've been to therapists who specialise in neurology and children/teens with Pervasive Developmental Disorders, behavioral disorders, and Attention Deficit Disorders. According to them, I have both AS and ADD, and I'm officially diagnosed with both.

No, the phrasing is "exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder"; but, since pervasive developmental disorders are lifelong and not episodic, it essentially rules out having attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder if you have a PDD. Of course the ADHD symptoms aren't going to occur exclusively in a PDD because they're different criterion sets. By that I mean you aren't going to diagnose someone with ADHD because you see symptoms like hyperfocus and social unawareness when there aren't any ADHD symptoms present and there are plenty of PDD symptoms present.

If a psychiatrist removed a PDD diagnosis, it would be possible to have an ADHD diagnosis according to the DSM-IV-TR as long as the criteria are met. Having a diagnosis of PDD alone disqualifies the diagnosis, technically (unless you believe a PDD can be grown out of).

Believe whatever you want, NeantHumain, but I am diagnosed with and have both AS and ADD. If you'd like to disagree with the many therapists, psychiatrists, and neuropsychologists who have said that I have both, go right ahead. Professionals who have had years of education and experience in their fields... what do they know?

Note: Just in case anyones's unsure, I am joking around. Also, NeantHumain, let's not turn this into a fight.