Connection with ADHD and ASD

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Hey, im a new member. Justin. I have lived an antisocial life. I never understood sarcasm or why people have personality and how it's used during conversation. My biggest issue in life was copying other peoples personalities to fit better. My dad is a very popular guy and I spent my entire life trying to be him and be social and popular like him. But I think it just made me seem weired and non authentic. So im startiung to accept that im not a social person and may never feel like I have any personality but I'd like to reach a diagnosis so that I could understand it better. Sicne searching the web to find out why I am so weired, I found ADD and imediately made the connection. I fit all of the symptoms and my twin brother aswell was diagnosed with ADHD as a child so it made sense. But after reading about aspergers I notice that my social awkwardness and inability to have freinds my entire life is better described by that. So just for the sake of diagnosing myself until I can see a profesional, I was wondering if you can explain to me what makes ADHD and Aspergers different in the first place.

I generally get stuck on my own theories, so stop me if I go off track. I just wanted to ask if you all think it is illogical to say that ADHD may fit along the autistic spectrum. This idea came to me when I was trying to rightfully diagnose myself and how even though I identify so well with ASpergers I also feel like I can relate with those who have severe ADD.

The symptoms I show that make my life difficult seem to exist in both ADHD and Aspergers Syndrome.
Inability to focus on topics of uninterest: ADD/AS
Have 1 or two main obsessions: ADD/AS
Daydreaming: ADD/AS
Stuttering: ADD/AS
Odd facial expresions: ADD/AS
Forgetfulness/clumsyness: ADD/AS
Auditory Proscessing disorder (problems mis interpreting what others are saying): ADD/AS
Going home and regreting things I have said because of inpulsiveness:ADD/AS


I can go on and on but there seems to be a long list of similar symptoms that seem to stem from inatentiveness. So mabye if someone could explain to me what the true difference is between the two conditions i'd really appreciate it. I dont have health insurance and wont be able to see any proffesionals anytime soon. Im just trying to diagnose myself because researching into this has become my latest obsession (which seem to change every so often but mainlly revolve around gaming).

In my mind: ADHD is an inability to focus that doesnt hinder a persons ability to socialise. Aspergers is when your attention deficit is so strong that you are unable to hold a proper conversation and appear socially awkward and Autism is when your attention deficit is even more severe than that.

The two disorders have to do with the brain working in a different way, so the symptoms can overlap. You can also have both disorders. I'm pretty sure I do. After being unable to concentrate after lunch at work I think I really need to get evaluated for ADHD.

"ADHD is an inability to focus that doesnt hinder a persons ability to socialise."
Nope, this is incorrect. Many people with ADHD have poor social skills, because of being unable to focus.
I'm not quite sure if they have a problem with reading body language and tone of voice like people with autism do.

How's your eye contact? Even though it's a stereotype a lot of people with AS don't like making eye contact, including me.

With AS you have obsessive interests that you spend hours on, and can often forget to eat/sleep because of them. Oh, and they basically know EVERYTHING about it. With me I know bits and pieces about my special interests and can spend 1 or 2 hours before I get mentally overloaded. I ca only spend 30 minutes reading before I fall to sleep. I'm not sure if that's got anything to do with ADHD.
People with AS may need a routine and will panic if it is interrupted. For example I have a strict eating routine and today it was completely thrown off. So now I have to work out ways to adjust to a new routine.
Something that seems more common with ADD/ADHD is that they do poorly in school if untreated/ unmedicated.
And with me I can't focus over an hour on anything I do, even if I enjoy it.
With Autism the long term memory is better than ADD.
What about poor motor skills or hypersensitivity to light/touch/noise? Those are very common in AS.

Sorry that this is all over the place, but I hope it helps a little.

I don't think it's fair to describe either as an inability to focus. A simplification at best. And, with both, there's also the ability to hyper focus. It's not so much an inability to focus as not focusing on what others want us to. Not so good at using social cues for motivation on what to focus on and what not, I think.

I cannot make eye contact unless its with a family member or someone who I have come to know.

Actually, no. ADHD people have poor social skills that may have to do with concentrating difficulties. Asperger's is kind of like social cluelessness. I don't think concentration is an issue with them because they can hyper focus on their interests and have a lack of interest in what people talk about if they can't relate (i.e small talk). With AS they don't know what the other person may be feeling, they have difficulty reading facial expressions and understanding tone of voice. Then they take things literally or get stuck on minor details.
AS is autism. There's no difference between HFA and AS, maybe there's more anxiety with AS, but really hardly any difference. With low functioning autism...well hard to say. I don't know anyone with it.

But there are similarities between ADHD and AS. In you have concentration difficulties and struggle in school/college/work/homelife then you could probably be diagnosed with ADHD on top of AS. AS can only be diagnosed if you have severe social difficulties.

Some good questions to ask yourself are "what is the process of you misinterpreting something?" and "What is keeping you from paying attention?". Is it that you need things explained in a concrete way for you to understand them (this is AS)? With AS If people are too vague you can easily get "tripped-up" and lose track of conversation giving the impression that you aren't paying attention when in reality it couldn't be further from the truth. Sensory problems associated with AS also hinder fluid conversation and listening skills.

ADD/ADHD as-well as processing disorders are well know to run comorbid with ASD's, so having all of what you are suspecting isn't out of the question either.

I've often wondered about ADHD and aspies. My personal (and unrehearsed) is that what is currently considered ADHD is really to conditions, one that is truly from inattention and hyperactivity, and the other is a milder form of autism. I've seen people with ADHD who know the social rules, but can't follow them because they are too impulsive, and I've seen people with ADHD who are totally oblivious to what the rules are all together.

Another interesting side of ADHD is the hyperfocus. Seems a lot like aspie obsessions to me, but to a lesser degree. Is it something different, or part of a spectrum?

There is a lot of confusion and similarities between ADHD, Autism/Asperger's, and Several Personality disorders. IMO, the key to distinguish between the three is knowing the reason for a person's problem.

ADHD/ADD are problems with the brains ability to focus and pay attention. This is independent of personality or overall cognitive styles. The person jumps from one thing to another quickly. Their interests change with the stimuli. Aspies and NTs without ADHD are affected by stimuli, but their interests remain the same. Aspies can switch between subjects/obsessions rather quickly, but their interests in acquiring knowledge remains stable. It's just the subject of knowledge that changes. With ADHD, the person's entire interest changes, their interests changes towards a new stimuli. Aspies and NTs without ADHD are only affected by the stimuli. They may want bright lights to decrease, or they may want to move away from bright lights.

Autism/Asperger's is a distinct way in which a person's brain is wired and works.It's like the difference between a helicopter and an airplane. They both fly, but they work very differently. The brain of people with Autism/Asperger's work differently than most NTs. This does not mean that they are not capable of the same intelligence or personalities. Like an airplane that needs a runway in order to take off, Aspies may need time to cognitively adjust to new people and situations. Once they are adjusted, they can become exceptional brilliant, (like an airplane, once it gets into the air, it can achieve extremely high altitude and speed, but it needs a runway and wings before this can happen). NTs would be like an helicopter, they can just startup and take off in social situations whether the situation or person is new or an old friend/familiar situation. An helicopter is good at tight turns and maneuverability but its speed and altitude can not come anywhere close to an airplane. NTs are good socially and academically in a wide range of situations and with a wide range of people, but they have a hard time attaining extremely high knowledge or remembering extreme detail like Aspie's can do rather easily.


Personality Disorders: Personality is kind of how a person fits into the world. One of the main things is that people with personality disorders tend to think that the world should change to fit them. There is a difference between not fitting in, and knowing that the world works a certain way, and YOU are the odd pig that doesn't fit into the world. People with personality disorders tend to think that they are never, or rarely wrong. For them, any discrepancy between how things should be and how things actually are, means that either the world or everybody in the world is wrong and they are right.
Aspies know that they are the one's that don't fit correctly into the world. Do not misconstrue this as to whether things in the world is rightly or wrongly they way they are. Aspies recognize that they have a problem socializing. They may wish the world works more logically like them, but the key is that they know that they are the one's that don't fit into the world like most people do. People with personality disorders rarely know that they are the one's that should change to fit it, they want everybody else to change to the way they want it to be, or they just don't care at all what other people think or feel.

Aspies know they are different but are not bothered by being different- they wish the world would accommodate their difference.
Persoality disorders tend to think that they are normal, but everybody else is wrong, and therefore everybody else must change, because they are right and everybody else is wrong.

ADHD have problems because they can not remain focused on whatever they want to focus on. Almost everything about them changes with a new stimulus.

Aspies have problems because they can not adapt or understand the social and implied body language of people. They are affected by stimuli, but they only wants the stimulus to decrease or to leave the situation. They are not changed by the stimulus like ADHD are.

Personality Disorders have problems because no matter how outrageous or improbably their opinions are, they tend to think that there is nothing wrong with thinking or feeling the way they do.

Aspie's don't like the way the world works, personality disorders don't like working with the world.

Sorry I don't have the ability at present to dig into this the way it should be, but I'd like to hit a couple of points. Hope that much is okay...

Not really. As best I can see, no distinction is made between topics of interest or disinterest in the current DSM in diagnosing any of the three "flavors" of ADHD - Combined, Inattentive or Hyperactive/Impulsive. All it says is that there's an inability to pay attention, follow-through with promises, etc. Perhaps the clinical reality is different? But the way its written it looks like its supposed to be close to a universal inability to pay attention, at least in an academic setting.



I've never heard of an obsessive interest being used as part of a diagnosis of ADHD. Could you elaborate on this? Its not in the DSM-IV, anyways. I'm pretty sure it is also not part of some of the unfortunate "fellow-travelers" of ADHD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) and Conduct Disorder (CD), either...Not that everyone with ADHD has ODD or CD, or vice versa, but there's apparently a greater likelihood you'll have ODD or CD if you have ADHD, and also the other way around. But I also admit my knowledge of ODD and CD is pretty minimal, so maybe its in there?



ADHD is kind of a strange beast in a lot of ways, and I would submit that in some ways/instances it can be much worse than Asperger's. In fact, a downright brutal condition. I'm about three quarters of the way through a very interesting book on the topic, ADHD in Adults: What the Science Says (Amazon link) that I'd recommend anyone with an interest in the topic check out...assuming you're also up for some heavy lifting, or ignoring pages and pages of statistical analysis and jumping between the narrative parts that are reasonably accessible. (I've honestly done a bit of both.) According to the books authors, children diagnosed as ADHD who retain the condition are, as they age are much more likely to drop out of high school, use drugs, engage in violent behavior (fistfights, robbery), go to prison and on and on. But, it is also fairly common for children to "outgrow" the behavior, even though it is more like it diminishes, not quite that it goes away.

About my only complaint re: the book is that they don't seem to have any interest in parsing the three different types of ADHD. I mean, I'd imagine someone who's ADHD-primarily inattentive is a bit less likely to act out violently, either as a child or as an adult, while someone Hyperactive/Impulsive is going to be in people's faces 24/7...but either they could not do it, or didn't deem it important enough to delve into.

I've never seen anything I'd consider reliable research documenting an ADHD/hyperfocus connection. It might be there, I guess, since there certainly seems to be anecdotal evidence galore, but the connection isn't one I'd bet the mortgage on, personally.

I'm also probably a bit biased, in the sense that I really didn't like the books by the guy who first noticed/invented or certainly popularized the whole hyperfocus as a part of ADHD idea, Thom Hartmann. Hyperfocus is just part of this theory he has that NTs are "farmers" and ADHDers are "hunters." (Which would make Aspies what? Shaman? ) Or at any rate the genetic descendants of "hunters" and "farmers." And the hyperfocus bit comes into play when the hunter is staring down a boar charging him/her armed only with a wooden spear, or something like that. And this translates to a trader on Wall Street making split second buy/sell decisions successfully thanks to his hyperfocus, a litigator thinking on her feet in the middle of a trial, changing strategy in a split second thanks to hyperfocus, etc., etc.

The whole theory struck me as crap when I first read it, and I've seen nothing to revise that opinion. Of course, Hartmann's theory could be exactly what I think it is, and hyperfocus a reality anyway. I'm a bit surprised there's been no studies, though how you'd test for something that pops in at certain times for some people and at entirely different times for others I have no idea.

I guess a boar charging you with a wooden spear would tend to focus the mind, wouldn't it? Obviously bed time.

Lazy ratio = (responsibility - enablers) / (motivation + nags)

What needs to be versus the ability willpower to do so.

I suspect that since ADD and asp are self control issues they are related. My son's doctors says the frontal lobe deals with impulse and self control, focusing on a task and follow through on a job despite a level of interest requires that ability. Can see how they could be related.

I dont think that I have a personalit disorder. From what I know personality disorders are just basic disorders in having too much of one type of personality. Such as having an overlly greedy personality, or excesively anxious. I have never had that problem. I just have the problem, being extremely socially awkward even though I at times fantasise about how I want to interact with people, I can never seem to be the well rounded person I want to come off as. I gripp to tight to whats logical and have problems finding things funny and engageing myself into conversations with others. And when I do conversate its like I dont hear the other person speak. This is what I have come to learn as Auiditory Proscessing Disorder. When in highschool I used to get bullied and then I'd go to school the next day with a new personality. Trying to change myself piece by piece everyday until I was what others wanted me to be. And so that I can socialise with these people, but It never worked. Because of this, I feel like I can barely hmake eye contact and I am deeply deppressed.I have also had a giant school problem. I would sleep in any class I took and constantlly say dream. In fact, I spend 1/3rd of my life in day dream mode, removed from reality. Usually these day dreams are about me being a heroic person like the main carachters of a cartoon anime. Being the gook guy saves everyone type of person. Thats me in a paragraph. Mabye ill update this later.