How aspergers presents in females

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I was reading how aspergers presents itself different in females quite often. I was wondering HOW it presents in females. I ask, because my now dead mother was said to be OCD and borderline. However, her OCD seems more like OCPD in retrospect...and several of her behaviors have me wondering if she may have also been aspergers (or aspergers and not OCPD). She died in 2001, so aspergers wasn't well known then. I'll list some of her characteristics that have me wondering if she could have been aspergers.

Mother
1. obsessive about ideologies. for her, these were religious in nature (being Jehovah's witness provided LOTS of religious ideologies to be obsessive about).
2. black and white view of the world. strong sense of virtuousness, and felt most others were lacking this.
3. very narrow areas of interest. i remember specific TV shows (Quincy, Matlock, Days of Our Lives) and sewing. and me. she was obsessed with me from the time I was born. I had to REALLY FIGHT for my independence when I got older...to the point where I spent much of my early 20s being anywhere other than my home state.
4. socially awkward her entire life. she never had any friends that I can remember, and only one or two names that came up from her past.
5. overwhelmed by lights, sounds, people. she stayed at home most of the time.
6. intelligent, but without direction. a life full of unmet potential.
7. said very inappropriate things. no real sense of what was/was not okay to say given the context. she was also kinda obsessed with sex...many of the things she said were sexual in nature, but she thought they were funny. they were usually just embarrassing. she would get worse when around people other than me...social anxiety on top of it, i imagine.
8. hypersensitive. easily upset, cried and/or yelled often. sometimes the crying would just take over. I grew up afraid to cry, because from my perspective, crying meant "crazy."
9. shutdowns. depressive episodes where she would be a living zombie for days or weeks. often accompanied by not showering, not dressing, just sitting in her favorite chair...sometimes even sleeping in the same chair.
10. hoarder. she would hardly throw anything away...but not like she had specific things she collected. she just collected everything. our house was always disguising.

Anyhow, I'm really curious about this, because I also see some aspergers traits in myself. But then in other things, I don't fit the descriptions AT ALL. So, I'm not really sure if its just overlap, or if it may actually be aspergers related.

Me aspergers-like (or so I have read)
1. VERY narrow areas of interest. I have to that dominate my life: my work and my dogs. For my work, I am a PhD in the biological sciences. I spend HOURS upon HOURS just researching...or looking at my data trying to think about what it can mean. I have a hard time "ending" a project, because I find there is ALWAYS something unanswered. OR I discover a pattern in my data that I become intrigued by...and spend days or weeks on...with it often going nowhere. and in the meantime, i often have someone riding my ass to get something finished...but its so hard to finish!! ! *SHINY!!*
2. socially awkward. I am very uncomfortable around people I do not know...and groups? Forget it. I have to (1) drink to cope with this; (2) show up, say hi, and make an excuse to leave; or (3) take a tranquilizer. One one one, I am fine...I like to learn about people...but I often get accused of interrogation, because I will ask a lot of questions, but dont really offer a lot in return.
3. inappropriate comments. i dont have much of a filter, and i just say things. Or I dont say anything. Super quiet, or saying things I probably shouldnt. An example of something that i have said that made someone upset: once, I said asked my roommate, when we were at a bar with some of her friends, if she could please make sure her bathroom door is shut when she leaves, as my dog had got into her dirty pads again. she was mortified. i still don't get it...women have periods. dogs are gross. women are 50% of the population. and did i say dogs are gross?
4. seem drawn to aspergers peoople. now that i know what aspergers is, i am pretty sure that three of the four guys that i have been seriously involved with fall somewhere on the spectrum.
5. overtaken sometimes by episodic obsessions. recently these are (1) getting the dog urine out of my carpet; (2) researching a car to buy and (3) learning about aspergers. So, my "spare" time for work almost certainly is with these...and the rest of the time, I am sleeping.
6. unkempt. although i sometimes get haircuts with cute styles, ill last a week at most with styling it. often my hair is overgrown for its cut. same with makeup. i go through phases with it...but i am happiest when i dont have to worry about it. ill go weeks without shaving, and often wont even notice i havent shaved for weeks. i like comfortable clothing. and, while there are def. styles and fashions i am drawn to, i usually just end up resorting back to comfy pants i picked up a second hand store, the sandals ive had for years, and some sort of loose fitting top. and, if im not around other people, i am perfectly content just not showering.
7. tomboyish. as a kid, i was a total tomboy. as ive grown older, i have been accused of being a lesbian on more than one occasion, though i consider myself heteroflexible (occasionally attracted to women, but mostly men). it relates, im sure, to the unshaven mess i frequently am!
8. incredibly clumsy. really bad sense of depth or something, though its gotten better with age. as a kid, i was ALWAYS bumping into stuff...and always had lots of bruises due to it. even now, its not uncommon for me to trip on something..or to run into someone at a store or whatnot.

Me aspergers NOT like
1. very sensitive. im either oblivious to someone/something, or im hypersensitive to it. means i end up reading into stuff too much.
2. overly emotional. i don't display outward most of the time, but sometimes the news makes me sad so i will cry a few tears. i easily slump into depressions.
3. no problems with innuendos, rhetorical questions, sarcasm. i don't take anything literally...and i speak with lots of sarcasm, ask tons of rhetorical questions, and have lots of analogies.
4. flexible in thinking. i often see outside of the box.
5. dont think i have a problem reading faces or body language. then again, i often think people are responding negatively to me: find me boring, or weird, etc. so, it is possible i just THINK i can read people, but instead i'm just projecting onto them.

So....yea. Comments on aspergers in women? And if these (both my mother and myself) seem to be traits that could put someone on the spectrum...or if perhaps they are just similarities, but likely unrelated to aspergers.

I don't see these two points as "aspergers NOT like". Aspies can easily be hypersensitive. We often "catastrophise" (react to ordinary setbacks as though they were major catastrophes) and overreact emotionally. Feeling strong emotions, but not expressing them outwardly (point 2), is practically classic Aspie, I would have thought. Being anxious or depressed are pretty widespread among Aspies too - I spent most of my teen years anxious and depressed (nowadays I am just anxious and stressed).

Unkempt and not overly feminine yes

Well, I'm a female Aspie. I look feminine (long hair, "normal" girl's clothes), but it sometimes feels like my thoughts are rather masculine. My humor is more "male", because I found that many NT girls don't like dark or dirty humor and I have no problems with that. I also use rarely any makeup and I'm pretty aromantic. I also found the company of guys more relaxing than that of girls, because they're sometimes just too.. uh.. I dunno.. loud? Stupid? Arrogant?
Many typically "female" habits don't work for me. Like going to the restroom in groups (I hate that) or shopping, especially for shoes (I REALLY hate that).

In addition to the all-encompassing interest, pretty much the same. Well, that's what Wing's paper says (which is how AS is defined in the West for the most part).

Welcome to WP aspienewbie22

I'm also seeking more information on this. I'm not diagnosed but currently taking steps to have myself assessed to see if I am on the autism spectrum.

I also think my Mum may have autistic / asperger traits, she has love of routines, sensitivities to noise and other things, very easily becomes anxious and distressed by change or disruption of her routines, is intelligent but has (I think) never reached her full potential, she also has suffered bouts of depression throughout her life.

I also am sensitive to change of routine, but unlike my Mum I don't let it stop me doing things, I feel a bit uncomfortable, accept it and move on (this may be a deliberate choice / reaction on my part as I saw how much this has restricted her life and was determined it would not affect me the same way). I also wanted to get away from my Mum for a bit when younger but for different reasons, in particular her need for very rigid routines was very frustrating to me in my late-teens to early twenties, I'm more accepting of it now I'm older. I have generally lived at least 200 miles or more away from her, and see her perhaps 2-3 times a year, though we speak fairly regularly by phone.

I would say that I am both very like and in some ways very unlike my Mum (but don't most daughters say that...)

I've found it difficult to find good information on women with aspergers / autism and would be interested in any information research anyone is aware of.

There is an interesting list put together by Rudy Simone where I think I meet most of the traits listed - the page link below also has some differences between men and women, you'll find it here (you'll need to click on the tables to enlarge them and read them).
Rudy SImone - Asperger Women Traits and differences from men
(she's also written a book called Aspergirls)

There's is also some interesting information about women on the spectrum on the UK National Autistic Society website here:
UK National Autistic Society - Information on women on the spectrum

:thinking about the question:

...I smile ALOT.
People told me that I smiled inappropriately many times.
I guess it has developed like an instinct for the world that confuses me,
kind of a submisive gesture of : Do not hurt me, I am friendly.

I can pretend to be :normal: for some short periods, but it is exhausting and boring.
Even though it :creates friends: fast and easily,
I loose them as fast, as I can not keep up with that fake persona.

I got hurt and scarred so I developed compassion,
I do tend to try to help people in distress,
oftentimes by hugging them , but it too often goes all wrong.

When I experienced shutdowns, it would throw me out of balance in a major way, sometimes,
especially around my period.
Instead of talking about it with my familly or people close to me,
I would just let myself hospitalised.
So that no-one would see me in my low functioning self.

My special interests usually take over my ability to talk about much else,
I can talk about other things in social situations,
but it often is frustrating,

I never thought I had rutines,
I believed I hated them,
but recently I have found out that I do indeed observe my rutrines,
but they are subtle,
as I was never really in a position where I could dictate things.

Well real quick before I read this I have to say based on the title...I think it probably depends on the woman since I know everyone who is biologically female is not the same.

I'm the same way. I keep my hair long as something of a security blanket; when I get nervous, I mess with it. That seems to be more socially acceptable then some habits I used to have. I dress like a girl because that's what society wants, not because that's what I want (although I do it poorly, most of the time, because it's not what I want - I want to be comfortable, so I choose clothes that work for that, which aren't necessarily "fashionable"

Sarcasm and dirty jokes, here ^_^ plus a plethora of "male-leaning interests" (video games, comics, science and technology), no make-up, hate shopping, wrestled in HS (men's team) and was in the military, and let's just say when girls find that stuff out, they assume I'm a lesbian, and I find that difficult to deal with. ^_^

Clearly, I'm in good company. Well met!

Well, for one thing, Newson Syndrome (pathological demand avoidance syndrome) is the only autism spectrum condition with an equal gender ratio, so autistic girls are more likely to have that subtype. (As I do.)

Now, on to your list of traits:

Not sure what counts as obsessive about ideologies. I have a very thoroughly thought out moral code of my own design, and I often think about how I can be a better person. When I find an ethical problem I can't easily answer, I get obsessed with it, kind of like poking at a loose tooth. This is partly why I'm interested in psychopathy, because it raises a lot of ethical issues.



Not true for me. I see everything in shades of grey. I hate when things are portrayed as black and white.

I used to be more of a black and white thinker when I was younger, but I think that's true for everyone.



My interests are unusual, but not very narrow. Psychopathy, autism, rare genetic syndromes, felines, bats, all somewhat unusual interests, but all relatively broad.

I could also relate to the not wanting to finish a project because there's more to explore. What I do is delegate that stuff to my next project.



I'm socially awkward too, but I do have friends at times. Currently, my best friend lives in another town because I moved recently, and I have no friends where I live now. It's really hard for me to make friends, but sometimes I manage to do so.

I'm very talkative, to the point where it's hard for anyone else to get a word in edgewise. I'm the opposite though - I tend to talk too much about myself, unless there's something that interests me about the other person (which usually means they have a disability, or a disabled family member).

I don't drink. Every single alcoholic beverage I've ever encountered smells disgusting. Plus, I hate the thought of losing control.



Same with me, but probably less severe. It doesn't stop me from going out, but I need time to recover if I end up in a crowd for awhile, and I avoid parties as much as possible.



I hope I don't end up like that. I'm trying to get a degree in psychology, but one of my biggest fears is that once I've graduated, I won't be able to get a job or make anything of myself.



I talk fairly bluntly about sex with my family, but usually not strangers. I do tend to say inappropriate things at times because of poor social skills, often I'm not aware that I said something unusual until my parents point it out. I have pretty much no sense of private information, so I'll tell complete strangers that I'm autistic and was sexually abused.



Meltdowns, yes. If I feel under attack or rejected, I'm just crushed emotionally.



Never been that severe for me. I get depressed at times, but I still function at a bare minimum. During my rough school days, I'd go to school, sit and zone out all class, do my best to ignore everyone's abuse of me, and go home and forget school even existed. I did almost no schoolwork, but I did change my clothes and go around, and I'd be reading a book pretty much constantly. The worst part was that I literally forgot what it felt like to be happy, because I'd go months without even a glimmer of joy.



Definitely true of me. This is one reason why I still live with my parents, because they help keep the mess under control.



I'm drawn to autistic people. I prefer nonverbal kids, though. (Not romantically, fortunately!) I don't have to bring my verbal skills online.



All my free time is taken up with obsessions, and that's how I like it.



I don't bathe regularly, I often go days without changing my clothes, and I never wear makeup. My hair is usually brushed because it gets itchy if unbrushed, but it's always just plain straight long hair. I have never shaved in my life. The thought of it freaks me out. I always wear comfortable clothing without concern for fashion. I'm usually reasonably fashionable, simply because those are the clothes that I can easily find in stores.



I'm not very feminine or masculine, just weird. I'm more masculine than feminine, however.

I'm asexual. I suspect if I did have sexual desire, I'd be lesbian.



Me too. Karate has helped with that, however. Shortly before I started karate, I ran into a sharp overhang under a bathroom mirror, and it gouged out a chunk of my arm. I still have a scar there.

Now, with karate, I'm not exactly graceful, but I don't run into things as often.



Me too. I'm constantly asking my parents if they're mad at us, when they're actually busy/in pain/overwhelmed/depressed/concentrating instead.



Me too. Except I show everything I feel - I have no ability to hide my emotions. I can be hard for others to read, however.



I take things literally and understand the intended meaning. I can understand nonliteral language, but I'm not comfortable with it.



I don't even see the box to begin with!



I'm pretty sure that is what's going on. I thought I could read people fine because I didn't realize how much I was missing, but in talking with my parents, they'll often comment on things I totally missed.

I'm especially bad at spotting romantic relationships. I'm lucky I'm asexual, or I'd unintentionally try to cheat all the time!

Couple more questions and a comment on dating.

(1) I have always excelled at literature/reading/writing. As a kid, these were my strongest points, though I did do well in math and science. I even started college with literature as my major...but after realizing one day that many people in literature are ego stroking idiots, I opted for science...it fits better with my brain. And, not to say there is no ego stroking in science. HAHA! However, the ego strokers are not idiots, so I tolerate it better.
Anyhow, my point is that despite being excellent with vocabulary and writing, verbal communication has been difficult for me much (but not all) of my life. As a kid, I was called "machine-gun Millie" because I spoke so fast...and apparently all the time. By the time I got to school, this wasn't the case, and the older I got, the more quiet and reserved I got...so that by the time I was 10, I kept to myself except for one or two friends. I used to journal constantly. I have journals from age 6 until I stopped, around age 27. Despite knowing words, and having no problems with written communication, and despite being able to chatter on and on as a kid, by the time I was a teenager, and you have stuff to talk about that is actually important other than "hey, look at that pretty flower!" and "my dog is way better than your dog," I had to write out my words before I spoke them. I wouldn't read it to the other, but I would often just give a letter. I found (which is true through today) that I forget the words when I am speaking...writing just suits me better. And, a few years back, I realize if given the opportunity, I opt to chat via IM rather than speak. In chatting, I can keep a conversation going much longer...and I'm more "talkative." When I've analyzed this, I've come to realize that for some reason, while I know the words, there seems to be an extra step between words and expressing verbally that isn't there in writing...or maybe not a step, but a way in which it is processed by my brain...anyhow, my point is that writing is just easier. I can find the words. When I try to have the same conversation verbally, it isn't as natural. My good friends have always been people that I can be silent around. Not that I won't talk...but I am prone to periods of just not talking. My romantic connections have to be highly physical (not just sex), because I honestly prefer to communicate with touch. Not about ideas, but instead of filling the void with chatty chatty, I just like to sit quietly, and hold my partners hand and/or caress their arm (big fan of skin...so soft. I pretty much just love soft things....). When I was a teenager, I went through a period of meth use...for me, the primary reasons were (1) I could spend hours writing and (2) I was VERBAL for once in my life, and I actually spoke to people. I felt less socially awkward...at least I wasn't the silent girl, any more (don't need a lecture on how bad drugs are...duh! I'm well aware of this...and I do not have a drug problem as an adult...I have attained the highest level of education possible, and many of the goals I have set out in life to achieve...so, please, save the drug speech!).

Is this what is meant when descriptions of aspergers state that they have vocabulary, but poorly developed verbal skills? My whole adult life I have not understood this about me...and have only been able to chalk it up to "how my brain is wired." Just thinking that maybe there is an actual name for this is overwhelming in a good sense. I actually have tears, and I think I might cry. This wraps back to something I said earlier...how I am very emotional, but don't express this in front of people. I never get that feeling of overwhelmed and cry when others are around. I somehow am more disconnected from myself.

(2) I have always been drawn to animals. I wanted to be a vet when I was a kid, and bawled hysterically for days when I was told by my high school guidance counselor that if I wouldn't dissect a frog in my biology class, I would never become a vet. I mean...I was CRUSHED. I grew up in a very unstable family, and my mother, who I now suspect had aspergers or placed somewhere along the spectrum, was emotionally abusive, my father pretty much abandoned me, my stepfather was an alcoholic, and my great grandmother, my "security", was emotionally and psychologically abusive, but in a controlled manner my mother lacked. Anyhow, I always said I loved animals because they would never hurt you. But, I really think there was something more to it. I seem to understand their motives better, and their innocence is incredibly appealing. They are brutally honest, have zero ulterior motives, I never have to wonder what they are thinking, they are nice to touch and cuddle with (soft), and they never make me feel like I'm being judged for being myself. To this day, I would prefer to stay curled up in bed with my dogs than get up and live life. I was actually moved to work from home because I can let them in and out as the day goes on...and they are not left alone (also, being in an office is distracting to me...I don't like being around the people...but the dogs were really the trigger). I understand there is an attraction between animals and individuals with aspergers. Is how I describe this similar for others here, or are your own connections different?

(3) My thing with soft. I just realized that I am clearly attracted to soft...and touch. I touch everything. I LOVE having the inside of my arm rubbed...the nerves are so sensitive that it's like a small fire moving up and down my arm. That being said, if the touch is too localized, it gets to be too much. I'm wondering if this is "normal" now, or if has to do with the connection between aspergers and sensations (I have read that sensations can be heightened, and it is either loved or hated). As a kid, I was always sticking my feet up in the air at my mom begging her to rub them. I mean...what six or ten year old has foot problems and NEEDS a massage? It just FELT GOOD.

(4) Dating. Someone mentioned how they have a hard time reading others, especially romantically. And there are tons of threads on romantic awkwardness. I have to admit that in my life, the ( I was wrong earlier when I said 3/4 of my relationships were likely aspergers; it's actually 3/5) relationships I have had have not been my doing. I am NOT suave, I can not read if someone likes me romantically, and I would have died a virgin if the first two guys didn't pursue me and make it clear what their intentions were. The others...I met them ALL online. One at match.com, one at the onion personals, and the final at okcupid. Even with sex, I've met most of my partners online. Again, I am terrible at reading people. I have also been overweight most of my adult life, and have felt unattractive and insecure. Anyhow, I just wanted to make it clear that I have only been "successful" (e.g. I don't consider myself successful, as I have yet to meet the person I will even LIVE with for the first time...and while fun (when good, which half the time it isn't), its the awesome sex that ultimately keeps me around, and clearly this won't last the long-haul. I have some other posts about issues with him on this site, so I will skip the details. However, one can not deny how we can become more tolerant of things (short term, at least) when awesome sex is involved...so for now, we are still together).

Sarcasm and dirty jokes, here ^_^ plus a plethora of "male-leaning interests" (video games, comics, science and technology), no make-up, hate shopping, wrestled in HS (men's team) and was in the military, and let's just say when girls find that stuff out, they assume I'm a lesbian, and I find that difficult to deal with. ^_^

FIRST, what code do I need to put around someone's comment so that it is the cut and pasted look?

But, back to this and the comment it stemmed from...is this male? I mean, I LOVE dirty jokes; I only like shopping on rare occasions (and must admit I prefer second hand stores over department stores); while all of my best friends are female, they are not "normal" females (I HATE cattiness, flirtatiousness, prissiness...many of the "female" things....it screams "LOOK AT ME" or "HELP ME," IMO...and I don't want anyone looking at me and I am perfectly able to do it myself, thank you. And about friends in general. I have moved around A TON, so unfortunately, while I have about five female friends that I LOVE DEARLY, I do not live within 1,000 miles of a single one of them...people of these kind are hard to find!)...so while I get closest to females, I prefer to work and be casually located among guys; and no military...but I do work in a field that lets me get my science mind on most of the time, but on occasion, I get to "play" with animals that are not particularly feminine (reptiles/amphibians...though amphibians...my choice...among those in herpetology, are more likely to be studied by women...or so it seems).

I used to have a black-and-white view of the world. But somewhere in my 20s, I realized I was carrying and using my father's philosophy in my approach to life. Since to that point I had spent half of my life hating him, I endeavored to divest myself of his view. So I began to read books and watch movies that allowed me to question and evolve my thinking. Slowly I got rid of that all-or-nothing view of life. But it wasn't until I spent some time at Burning Man, where I basically was alone, especially at night, among 45,000 people, that I gave up that negative, narrow and inflexible thinking.

My biggest problem, one that I have not been able to shake, is being singled out and culled from the herd for being different. For instance, when I began participating on internet forums about six years ago, most other posters thought I was male. I suppose most guys think only men are capable of rational and logical thinking and writing. But they are wrong. And since I don't write like a girl, and for some people that means using lots of emoticons, especially the one with the boobs that quickly shake from side to side, those guys also accused me of being a lesbian. lol Those overbearing, pompous morons!

In various jobs and social activities over the years the same problem persisted. I was not like other girls, I didn't spend much time with other female co-workers, and when we had get-togethers I didn't talk about children, boyfriends, husbands, clothing, shoes, purses. And since I was attractive, I was viewed as a possible boyfriend/husband stealer as well as obtuse when it came to male co-worker attention. For me, work was for work and if I wanted to chat about my personal life, I certainly was not going to do so with people who I did not view as friends. With social activities, I never tried to steal any woman's man. But since many people tend to be jealous, insecure and petty, I was subjected to a lot of crap and abuse. For a while I hated people, but I suppose I just really hated those kinds of little people.

Was a tomboy as a girl. Hated wearing dresses and when the day came that I didn't have to anymore, I was so thrilled. The one and only time I was invited to play with Barbie dolls at a grade school classmate's home, she was disappointed that I didn't like them as much as she did and was truly dismayed that what I really liked was the 1937 Mercury dime she had, which she gave me. One of these days, if I ever meet her again, I will apologize for accepting that old dime.

it's [ quote = "username" ] (take out spaces) to start the quote and [ / quote ] at the end to close the quote


It's not necessarily male, but these things are more common in males, I believe that's what was meant by it (for me that's what was meant). There's nothing wrong with either way, I mean I'm perfectly happy with my interests and being the only girl in a group of guys, though it does make it more difficult to date; guys don't seem to want to date a brother, for the most part. They all say things like "I wish my girlfriend was like you" but they don't seem to mean it, because they'll still go for those feminine types :p

I sometimes tell people "All I'm missing is the ability to get an erection." because, while I don't want to actually *be* a guy, that's the way my brain works. *shrugs*

Just be who you want to be ^_^ We have the choice to do so, and nobody has any place to tell you it's wrong.

In my mind I feel neither male or female.I twist and play with my hair a lot.I smile at the wrong times,I read that primates do this to show they are not afraid.I have learned (somewhat) to not blurt out the first thing that comes to mind as I usually sound like a smart ass.I only like comfortable clothes so I wear a lot of sweatpants and t- shirts,I hate fru-fru girly clothes.I don't really have many close friends and could never figure out why groups of women would go to the mall together and "shop till you drop".It sounds like hell to me.I couldn't get the beauty shop thing either because the chemicals smell like hell.I can't stand the smell of finger nail polish remover and I don't like people touching me so pedicures and massages are out.I never liked to play with dolls,I liked to dig in the dirt and play with cars.A girly-girl I will never be.

Great thread!!