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FlyingAeroplane
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25 Apr 2010, 4:38 pm

Geniune question. I am someone who is fairly mild on the autistic spectrum. Should I reproduce? Would I be morally obliged to do so or not? Really I am just curious for your answers, fundementally I am getting at the question as to whether or not someone being born with AS is better/worse/indifferent to an NT. I appreciate all your thoughts.



Spazzergasm
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25 Apr 2010, 4:45 pm

I think it's ok. as long as you aren't severely physically impaired.
Autism isn't some degenerative form of insanity. So I think it's ok.



Steffy
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25 Apr 2010, 4:58 pm

I think when thinking about having children, you should consider if you could handle the pressure and stress of caring for them. If have trouble dealing with daily pressures by yourself, consider how things will change with children.


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Willard
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25 Apr 2010, 4:59 pm

What makes you think if you do have a child that your child will be born with an ASD?

My daughter doesn't have a trace of Autism. Nor does my younger sister, or either of my parents.



FlyingAeroplane
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25 Apr 2010, 5:01 pm

Willard wrote:
What makes you think if you do have a child that your child will be born with an ASD?

My daughter doesn't have a trace of Autism. Nor does my younger sister, or either of my parents.

The point really is that they are very likely to have an ASD. But let us say I were to be a cuckoo and donate to a sperm bank. What would the morals be then?



Janissy
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25 Apr 2010, 5:06 pm

FlyingAeroplane wrote:
Willard wrote:
What makes you think if you do have a child that your child will be born with an ASD?

My daughter doesn't have a trace of Autism. Nor does my younger sister, or either of my parents.

The point really is that they are very likely to have an ASD. But let us say I were to be a cuckoo and donate to a sperm bank. What would the morals be then?


That is for the sperm bank to decide.



FlyingAeroplane
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25 Apr 2010, 5:08 pm

Janissy wrote:
FlyingAeroplane wrote:
Willard wrote:
What makes you think if you do have a child that your child will be born with an ASD?

My daughter doesn't have a trace of Autism. Nor does my younger sister, or either of my parents.

The point really is that they are very likely to have an ASD. But let us say I were to be a cuckoo and donate to a sperm bank. What would the morals be then?


That is for the sperm bank to decide.

I am of course presuming that I omit a detail...



sketches
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25 Apr 2010, 5:08 pm

Wow, you want to bring morals into this? This about your own life, freedom and family. I know some people say "stupid people should not reproduce," but it honestly doesn't sound like you're stupid just by asking this question. On the other hand, to me, it doesn't sound like you're ready to reproduce because you bring up this question. :oops:

Both of my parents have mental disorders, and consequently, my siblings & I were adopted by our grandparents. I actually live a very good life because of all the help I've had. I would genuinely say that if you accept and if you are prepared to (maybe) have a child with mental problems then it is OK for you to reproduce. (My parents weren't, but my grandparents -- who have already gone through this situation -- were very ready!)

Again, this is not a moral decision (I think), this is a personal decision, for you to decide. Also: please decide, and not just accidentally "let happen!"

I hope this post will give you some extra thought into this.


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Janissy
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25 Apr 2010, 5:12 pm

Steffy wrote:
I think when thinking about having children, you should consider if you could handle the pressure and stress of caring for them. If have trouble dealing with daily pressures by yourself, consider how things will change with children.


YES! This is what's important. The minute you decide to have children you take a giant gamble. It's not as though autism/no autism are the only possible things. You might have twins or triplets. You might have a child with severe disabilities. You might have a child who is absolutely healthy but enjoys things that you find very wearying. You might have a child with intense social needs that far exceed your own. You might have a child with a life-0threatening peanut allergy etc. etc. etc.

The bottom line is, only have kids if you are ready to take a giant leap and deal with whoever happens to be born to you no matter what.



FlyingAeroplane
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25 Apr 2010, 5:15 pm

sketches wrote:
Wow, you want to bring morals into this? This about your own life, freedom and family. I know some people say "stupid people should not reproduce," but it honestly doesn't sound like you're stupid just by asking this question. On the other hand, to me, it doesn't sound like you're ready to reproduce because you bring up this question. :oops:

I brought up the question because I want to see all the arguments - my family have some objections to me reproducing and I wouldn't mind nailing them in any argument that I have with them. But you are right in the sense I am a little too young for kids at the minute, the timing is not right. However, this is something which has been playing on my mind as of late.
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Both of my parents have mental disorders, and consequently, my siblings & I were adopted by our grandparents. I actually live a very good life because of all the help I've had. I would genuinely say that if you accept and if you are prepared to (maybe) have a child with mental problems then it is OK for you to reproduce. (My parents weren't, but my grandparents -- who have already gone through this situation -- were very ready!)

Is AS a mental problem intrinsically though? I always thought that it was a mental problem from the POV of many in society, rather than a mental problem in itself?
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Again, this is not a moral decision (I think), this is a personal decision, for you to decide. Also: please decide, and not just accidentally "let happen!"

Even if it involves Benadict brand condoms? :P
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I hope this post will give you some extra thought into this.

Thanks :)



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25 Apr 2010, 5:19 pm

I think you should have kids.


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FlyingAeroplane
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25 Apr 2010, 5:19 pm

Janissy wrote:
Steffy wrote:
I think when thinking about having children, you should consider if you could handle the pressure and stress of caring for them. If have trouble dealing with daily pressures by yourself, consider how things will change with children.


YES! This is what's important. The minute you decide to have children you take a giant gamble. It's not as though autism/no autism are the only possible things. You might have twins or triplets. You might have a child with severe disabilities. You might have a child who is absolutely healthy but enjoys things that you find very wearying. You might have a child with intense social needs that far exceed your own. You might have a child with a life-0threatening peanut allergy etc. etc. etc.

The bottom line is, only have kids if you are ready to take a giant leap and deal with whoever happens to be born to you no matter what.

I think these are important and interesting points. But lets put aside all the other elements of the gamble for a second. Of course there are risks. Imagine if there were not, let us suppose that we were to know the outcome. Would or should the fact that a child may have an ASD impact on your decision. I know that there are plenty here who stauchly oppose the concept of aborting babies with AS. What if the question was delibrately creating them instead?



Janissy
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25 Apr 2010, 5:24 pm

FlyingAeroplane wrote:
[I brought up the question because I want to see all the arguments - my family have some objections to me reproducing and I wouldn't mind nailing them in any argument that I have with them. But you are right in the sense I am a little too young for kids at the minute, the timing is not right. However, this is something which has been playing on my mind as of late.
:)


The issue isn't really "what sort of child would I be most likely to have?". DNA is so unbelievably complex that there is really no way to have the foggiest notion. Besides, it's not as though you are the only person contributing DNA. Unless you clone yourself, somebody else is contributing 50% to the mix. Given that, trying to guess what sort of child you would have is pointless.

So...the issue isn't "what sort of child am I most likely to have?". The issue is actually "what sort of parent am I most likely to be?" That's what's actually important. If you are going to take the gamble of being a parent, you can't pre-plan what sort of child you'd best be able to raise. This is a gamble to take only if you are up to the task of raising whoever you happen to get. So don't try to guess what the child would be like- that's futile. Try to imagine yourself taking care of a child...any child, and consider how well you would be able to handle that. If your family is concerned it isn't necessarily the DNA they are concerned about (which you got from them anyway). They may actually be concerned about how well you could handle the stresses of childcare.



Janissy
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25 Apr 2010, 5:29 pm

FlyingAeroplane wrote:
Janissy wrote:
Steffy wrote:
I think when thinking about having children, you should consider if you could handle the pressure and stress of caring for them. If have trouble dealing with daily pressures by yourself, consider how things will change with children.


YES! This is what's important. The minute you decide to have children you take a giant gamble. It's not as though autism/no autism are the only possible things. You might have twins or triplets. You might have a child with severe disabilities. You might have a child who is absolutely healthy but enjoys things that you find very wearying. You might have a child with intense social needs that far exceed your own. You might have a child with a life-0threatening peanut allergy etc. etc. etc.

The bottom line is, only have kids if you are ready to take a giant leap and deal with whoever happens to be born to you no matter what.

I think these are important and interesting points. But lets put aside all the other elements of the gamble for a second. Of course there are risks. Imagine if there were not, let us suppose that we were to know the outcome. Would or should the fact that a child may have an ASD impact on your decision. I know that there are plenty here who stauchly oppose the concept of aborting babies with AS. What if the question was delibrately creating them instead?


Ok, let's put aside the utter randomness for a bit and consider...if you knew your child would have an ASD, would you still have that child. Given the attempts to find a gnetic commonality amongst people with ASDs, that's a fair question. The answer still hinges on you as a potential parent. The issue isn't whether ASD is "good" or "bad". The issue is still, can you raise this child? This actually does come up when pregnant women get testing for genetic syndromes such as Downs Syndrome. The issue isn't "Is Downs Syndrome good or bad?" The issue is "can you raise a child with Downs Syndrome". Since that test has been available for many years, that means many parents have said "yes we can" and many others have said "no we can't". So it still comes down to what you think you are up to as a parent.

So the question isn't, "is it moral to knowingly bring an ASD child into the world? Or to create one?" (Create one? How, but I know that's a hypothetical.) The question remains, "Can I be a good parent to a child with an ASD?" If yes, then yes. If no, then no.



FlyingAeroplane
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25 Apr 2010, 5:32 pm

Janissy wrote:
FlyingAeroplane wrote:
[I brought up the question because I want to see all the arguments - my family have some objections to me reproducing and I wouldn't mind nailing them in any argument that I have with them. But you are right in the sense I am a little too young for kids at the minute, the timing is not right. However, this is something which has been playing on my mind as of late.
:)


The issue isn't really "what sort of child would I be most likely to have?". DNA is so unbelievably complex that there is really no way to have the foggiest notion. Besides, it's not as though you are the only person contributing DNA. Unless you clone yourself, somebody else is contributing 50% to the mix. Given that, trying to guess what sort of child you would have is pointless.

I recognise this. Indeed, in some respects, it is my job to do so. My main area of expertise is the mathematics behind biology. Really I am thinking in terms of abstract, idealised gambles, rather than absolutes.
Quote:
So...the issue isn't "what sort of child am I most likely to have?". The issue is actually "what sort of parent am I most likely to be?" That's what's actually important. If you are going to take the gamble of being a parent, you can't pre-plan what sort of child you'd best be able to raise. This is a gamble to take only if you are up to the task of raising whoever you happen to get. So don't try to guess what the child would be like- that's futile. Try to imagine yourself taking care of a child...any child, and consider how well you would be able to handle that. If your family is concerned it isn't necessarily the DNA they are concerned about (which you got from them anyway). They may actually be concerned about how well you could handle the stresses of childcare.

My parents would rather have adopted than bring another child into the world with AS (indeed they did just that). It is not so much handling the child which would be the problem, but the morals and so forth behind it. At the end of the day, if I delibrately bring into this world a child who is likely to have AS, I am answerable to he/she on this level. To be honest, it bugs me. But then if I don't bring a child with AS into this world, there is the moral quandrary which goes with that too.



FlyingAeroplane
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25 Apr 2010, 5:34 pm

Janissy wrote:
FlyingAeroplane wrote:
Janissy wrote:
Steffy wrote:
I think when thinking about having children, you should consider if you could handle the pressure and stress of caring for them. If have trouble dealing with daily pressures by yourself, consider how things will change with children.


YES! This is what's important. The minute you decide to have children you take a giant gamble. It's not as though autism/no autism are the only possible things. You might have twins or triplets. You might have a child with severe disabilities. You might have a child who is absolutely healthy but enjoys things that you find very wearying. You might have a child with intense social needs that far exceed your own. You might have a child with a life-0threatening peanut allergy etc. etc. etc.

The bottom line is, only have kids if you are ready to take a giant leap and deal with whoever happens to be born to you no matter what.

I think these are important and interesting points. But lets put aside all the other elements of the gamble for a second. Of course there are risks. Imagine if there were not, let us suppose that we were to know the outcome. Would or should the fact that a child may have an ASD impact on your decision. I know that there are plenty here who stauchly oppose the concept of aborting babies with AS. What if the question was delibrately creating them instead?


Ok, let's put aside the utter randomness for a bit and consider...if you knew your child would have an ASD, would you still have that child. Given the attempts to find a gnetic commonality amongst people with ASDs, that's a fair question. The answer still hinges on you as a potential parent. The issue isn't whether ASD is "good" or "bad". The issue is still, can you raise this child? This actually does come up when pregnant women get testing for genetic syndromes such as Downs Syndrome. The issue isn't "Is Downs Syndrome good or bad?" The issue is "can you raise a child with Downs Syndrome". Since that test has been available for many years, that means many parents have said "yes we can" and many others have said "no we can't". So it still comes down to what you think you are up to as a parent.

So the question isn't, "is it moral to knowingly bring an ASD child into the world? Or to create one?" (Create one? How, but I know that's a hypothetical.) The question remains, "Can I be a good parent to a child with an ASD?" If yes, then yes. If no, then no.

Let us say that, say via sperm donation (and there was no shortage of sperm), I did not have to raise that child. Moreover, I did not raise the prospect of that child having AS, and hid it from the process. What then? The question is of course here slightly more generic. It becomes, should I, delibrately bring a child into this world, because they have AS. Really this is something that I need to get at.