an unusual aspie?

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Help me decipher the DSM concerning a guy I know. He most likely has ADHD and probably at least autistic traits, but some parts of his personality seem almost counter-autistic. Here's what fits:

He doggedly resists change and becomes very anxious about someone proposing change.
He often has difficulty understanding other people's perspectives and intentions and for a guy his age he's rather naive, socially.
He has problems recognizing socially inappropriate behaviour, even after it's been pointed out to him.
He has problems planning and difficulty switching from one activity to another, leading to stress, chaos and unfinished work.
When he's stressed or focused he tunes out the world and doesn't respond to people.

As a child he only had much older friends and had tantrums as well as social problems. He had no sense of danger or social boundaries.

Here's where it gets mixed up:

He's a very charming social guy who easily does the social chit-chat. In fact, he seems almost addicted to socializing. He can read people's expressions and body language well and is a talented sales-rep. He seems the casanova type, even though he's very committed. (However, he's often interpreted as flirtatious when he's not and this leads to numerous misunderstandings with women, as he also doesn't recognize when women are making a play for him.)

So my question is actually two-fold;

does this contradict a diagnosis if one looks at the criteria the way they are today?

and have you ever known an aspie with the social profile I just mentioned?

He doesn't come across as socially awkward, but occasionally he has boundary issues, and he can't tell when he's talking too much (so his spouse will kick him under the table when it's time to plug it. She does a lot to support him.)

I'm a lot like that description, I used to do sales and all my Gf's in the past have thought I was a player, even though I was loyal. the part that isn't anything like me, is the addicted to chit chat. I can only talk about random stuff with my close friends.

so maybe that partially answers your question. I have traits close to what you described, and have AS

Thanks for replying. Maybe he's not really addicted to chit-chat, but he does like to meet people and talk a lot. At the same time he seems to get hyperactive from too much interaction so maybe he doesn't enjoy it as much as he seems? He's apparently never felt the need for much alone time, he's more extreme at the other end. Is there such a thing as compulsive socializing?

No idea. but I can say from first hand experience, I'm bored when I'm alone, but when I'm with friends I have anxiety and don't wanna hang out after an hour or two.

I'm similar to many of those supposedly non-aspie things. People often think I am romanitcally available to them when I am simply enjoying the conversation and I am horrified that they think I like them in 'that' way. I like chatting and meeting new people.

I'm pretty good at sales. I am pretty good at faking normal when it is essential to do so.

You say he can read non-verbals... are you sure? Or is he just going with the dominant tone in the room, or setting the tone himself and "on stage"? How well does he respond to a shift in tone, or a funeral, some setting that requires a soft touch, a sense of compassion and gentleness? Does he shift with your shifting mood? Or is he a beat or six behind?

You don't mention how old he is... I was a lot more social when I was younger and had that wild teenage/20-something energy. Now the thought of a dinner, concert, and bar til closing just exhausts me.

He can read non-verbals according to his gf, but at the same time he doesn't notice when she's struggling. But don't you have to be sensitive to people's cues to be good at sales? I suppose he might be setting a tone in his sales position. Also, I guess clients and customers probably fall into relatively predictable categories... He's definitely on stage at times, he'd try to entertain other children as a way of making friends when he was little, and apparantly they would get him to do stuff he would get into trouble for.

He'll be 29 this year

No, you don't have to be good at reading non-verbals to do sales... first, if people are coming to you, they're interested in your product, and second, if you just pay attention to what they say, they'll tell you what they want in words... an information conversation can ensue.

As for eye contact... people think I'm making eye contact when I am actually looking at their nose or mouth. It's a learned behavior.

And if he's not picking up on his gf's non-verbals, then he's not picking up non-verbals.

I was the class clown, too. I still can be the life of the party. I watched comedy shows a lot when I was a kid and got timing down to a 'T'.

So I'd say he's a young, energetic, talented Aspie. =0) He's learned how to do the dance to some extent, and he's making a living. All the behaviors you describe as confusing can be learned. And the socializing is more a function of youth, I'd guess.

You and those who know him will be best served by telling him in a straight-forward and kind manner what boundaries you want him to respect, and I'll wager he'll try. This is the dance he hasn't learned the steps to yet, and is probably baffled by why folks are getting pissed off.

Clear verbal information will be the way to go, if he's a half-way decent sort of guy, which it sounds like he is.

This reminds me alot of a guy I know. He doesn't really present with autism, but he's very clumsy, overly cheery all the time, and very social. But he doesn't seem to recognize when people are tired of him being around and whatnot. He's definitely not on the spectrum, but he is very awkward to be around.

He's a very good guy. The reason it's confusing probably has to do with the possibility that it only ADHD and not both. The ADHD is almost a given. Unfortunately he's from a family who don't believe in psychiatry and who have berated him for his odd and impulsive behaviour all his life. Now his sons are both most likely autistic, with comorbid ADHD. So he's very torn about being evaluated, since his family refuses to accept the disorders as real, and because he doesn't want to see himself as somehow deficient. At the same time, it's obvious he has problems.

The diagnosis really doesn't matter in itself, since help for adults who are high-functioning is pretty hard to come by anyway, it's more my own issues probably, with having to neatly define people. But I do think an evaluation, as hard as it may be, would open his eyes both to his own problems and potential solutions to those problems, in addition to making him better at handling his very demanding children.

I have met aspies who are good at chitchat but clam up when it comes to deep conversation.

Many aspies are of the Intuitive type ie INTJ or INTP or ENTJ, sometimes even INFJ/P or ENFJ or P,

but if the aspie is of the Artisan type, ie ESTJ or ISTJ, ISTP or ESTP they will be a lot more practical and they will likely excel at chitchat and seem on the surface to lack that conversational awkwardness of the more introspective INTJ or INTP, but find it hard to talk about their feelings. They are very private people.

Artisan aspies often say they have difficlty expressing themselves in words and prefer to work with their hands and get things done. They can sometimes be a little charismatic. I dont know whether it applies to your friend or not but I thought I would put it out there.

zen mistress:

I think he does have some problems expressing deep feelings. And as I have AS myself I don't often see people from the same perspective as others, so it's quite possible he comes across as only superficially socially able to other people. In the past I have found certain people to be really socially smooth and charming, only to hear that others found them to be weird, or annoying, or "too much".

It's interesting with the different personality types of aspies. My son and I are very different in some respects - his easily frightened, I was never scared, he is visually talented, I'm verbal etc. But at the same time, I never felt bad about other kids not liking me until I was ten, and my son also seems to either not notice or not care very much about it (he's five now). Both of us also need a lot of alone time. My friend's son is acutely aware of being different (he's also five) and has a very strong social desire, in combination with charm but limited social understanding, much like his father. It's fascinating how the spectrum varies. A professional once said that people with autism have their settings wrong. NT's have all settings somewhere in the middle, autistic people are either turned up too high or down too low. In the areas where autism affects us, we're either too much or too little of any given quality. I always found that very insightful, as it describes how we can share problem areas but still be vastly diverse individuals...

"Unusual aspie" is redundant.

he is undoubtedly "something." he has a few spectrum traits, at least. his success in sales might be tying into something he could be perseverating upon. too bad he has not shown a willingness to submit himself for examination, as it might be instructive both for himself and everybody else around him, as well as for the mental health professionals who could add to their body of knowledge by studying him.
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just my 2-cents' worth, adjusted for inflation