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The need to "always be thinking".

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marshall
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08 May 2010, 3:38 pm

Does it ever cause you a deep sense of alienation from society/people and deep depression?

I was wondering if anyone can relate to this as it seems like it could be the bane of my existence. I feel like the world just isn't meant for people like me. In order to be happy I always need to be thinking/analysing/studying something that interests me. Without that kind of stimulation my life feels completely empty/meaningless and all I can think about is suicide. Yet I can't relate to 99% of the population who just don't seem to care about thinking, or ever think too deeply about anything. It fills me with a mix of social dissatisfaction, sadness, and deep frustration. The other problem is the world doesn't really give one enough time to think or enjoy thinking. People are forced to work at least 8 hours a day and then when they get home there's chores and errands related to keeping up the house, feeding oneself, etc.

I'm not sure exactly where I'm going with this so I'll elaborate more later, hopefully.



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08 May 2010, 4:12 pm

marshall wrote:
Does it ever cause you a deep sense of alienation from society/people and deep depression?

I was wondering if anyone can relate to this as it seems like it could be the bane of my existence. I feel like the world just isn't meant for people like me. In order to be happy I always need to be thinking/analysing/studying something that interests me. Without that kind of stimulation my life feels completely empty/meaningless and all I can think about is suicide. Yet I can't relate to 99% of the population who just don't seem to care about thinking, or ever think too deeply about anything. It fills me with a mix of social dissatisfaction, sadness, and deep frustration.



" I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad. "
— Sheldon Cooper


:wink:



Horus
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08 May 2010, 5:43 pm

marshall wrote:
Does it ever cause you a deep sense of alienation from society/people and deep depression?

I was wondering if anyone can relate to this as it seems like it could be the bane of my existence. I feel like the world just isn't meant for people like me. In order to be happy I always need to be thinking/analysing/studying something that interests me. Without that kind of stimulation my life feels completely empty/meaningless and all I can think about is suicide. Yet I can't relate to 99% of the population who just don't seem to care about thinking, or ever think too deeply about anything. It fills me with a mix of social dissatisfaction, sadness, and deep frustration. The other problem is the world doesn't really give one enough time to think or enjoy thinking. People are forced to work at least 8 hours a day and then when they get home there's chores and errands related to keeping up the house, feeding oneself, etc.

I'm not sure exactly where I'm going with this so I'll elaborate more later, hopefully.



Oh I can definitely relate. I just don't think my own thoughts about anything are even remotely deep or original. I only wish they were. Much like yourself, the spirit which guides the "intellectual life" within me is VERY willing. But unlike you, the flesh of my brain seems very weak :( and nothing in this universe causes me more pain than that realization.

All I know is that i'd much rather read a book about one topic of interest or another than socialize, exercise, shop, sit in a bar, go to a ballgame, or any number of things people seem to take pleasure in. I wanted to be omniscient...but I had to settle for being closer to an ape than most humans. :(



MrDiamondMind
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08 May 2010, 5:53 pm

Quote:
Does it ever cause you a deep sense of alienation from society/people

Yes, but I don't view that as a negative.
Quote:
...and deep depression?

If it does, it's because they don't do it, not because I do.



Janissy
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08 May 2010, 6:09 pm

Thinking is overrated.

Chop wood.

Carry water.



marshall
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08 May 2010, 6:17 pm

I don't think I've fully explained myself yet. The sense of alienation/depression has most to due with the fact that I don't feel like I can adequately "let" other people into my own experience. I've always had this funny need to know that some other person is experiencing the same thing I am. It's frustrating when I sense that others don't have the same appreciation for some thing that I do.

I've been this way since early childhood. When I was little I can remember being extremely upset when other kids didn't display the same enthusiasm as I did towards my own interests. It bothered me that thier interests were different and I couldn't relate. It's strange since autistic people are supposed exist in their own world and not care so much about others. I always seemed to care, but I wanted to force other people to be more like me.

It's kind of difficult for me to explain the whole of this feeling exactly. It's this existential sense of "otherness" to people. I just have this strong intuitive feeling that I'm not at all like most other people I meet and it bothers me. I don't know if this is an ASD thing or something unique to me.



marshall
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08 May 2010, 6:24 pm

Janissy wrote:
Thinking is overrated.

Chop wood.

Carry water.


I don't think an extroverted person can fully understand. Thinking is the only thing that makes me happy. I have a thirst to understand and without that thirst existence is meaningless to me. I realize this culture seems to value "doing" more than thinking. Most people have this crazy need to fill every ounce of their time with some kind of social or physical activity. Living that kind of life would be incredibly tedious to me. I would get nothing out of it.



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08 May 2010, 6:28 pm

Janissy wrote:
Thinking is overrated.

Chop wood.

Carry water.




Ugh.....just the thought of such activities makes me shudder.

There is a reason for that though. I think too much about myself and my own miserable circumstances when engaged in some mundane task. At least reading a book or something serves as a comparative form of escapism for me.



marshall
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08 May 2010, 6:38 pm

Horus wrote:
Janissy wrote:
Thinking is overrated.

Chop wood.

Carry water.




Ugh.....just the thought of such activities makes me shudder.

There is a reason for that though. I think too much about myself and my own miserable circumstances when engaged in some mundane task. At least reading a book or something serves as a comparative form of escapism for me.


Same here. Boredom or mundane tasks create a mental vacuum in which negative energy surfaces from within. With depression there's always this negative energy just under the surface that seems to underlie everything you do. The only goal is to keep my mind active in something stimulating so I can escape the sense of dissatisfaction with my corporeal existence. Boredom exasperates the problem so much that I spend most of my time desperately trying to avoid it.



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08 May 2010, 6:43 pm

Horus wrote:
Oh I can definitely relate. I just don't think my own thoughts about anything are even remotely deep or original. I only wish they were. Much like yourself, the spirit which guides the "intellectual life" within me is VERY willing. But unlike you, the flesh of my brain seems very weak :( and nothing in this universe causes me more pain than that realization.

All I know is that i'd much rather read a book about one topic of interest or another than socialize, exercise, shop, sit in a bar, go to a ballgame, or any number of things people seem to take pleasure in. I wanted to be omniscient...but I had to settle for being closer to an ape than most humans. :(


Horus, you seem a rather erudite chap to me. Are you perhaps being overly hard on yourself, or holding yourself up to an ideal that is way too lofty?

As to the OP; I used to feel that way. Thinking was the core of my being for a good long time.

But, I must say that I agree with Jannissy, and I don't consider myself at all extrovert. Thinking is a means to an end, is it not? I can spin my brain all day doing a lot 'junk' thinking, and all I get is tired.

Of course, thinking is necessary and has it's place within a balanced human being. I'm not saying we should become mindless.

Marshall, have you considered perhaps going into academia, if you are not already, or perhaps hanging around in academic circles, or engaging in some way with minds you feel are more like your own? I have to say that I feel as out of place with the eggheads as I do the airheads, so it might not solve all your problems.


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MrDiamondMind
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08 May 2010, 6:43 pm

marshall wrote:
I don't think I've fully explained myself yet. The sense of alienation/depression has most to due with the fact that I don't feel like I can adequately "let" other people into my own experience. I've always had this funny need to know that some other person is experiencing the same thing I am. It's frustrating when I sense that others don't have the same appreciation for some thing that I do.

I've been this way since early childhood. When I was little I can remember being extremely upset when other kids didn't display the same enthusiasm as I did towards my own interests. It bothered me that thier interests were different and I couldn't relate. It's strange since autistic people are supposed exist in their own world and not care so much about others. I always seemed to care, but I wanted to force other people to be more like me.

It's kind of difficult for me to explain the whole of this feeling exactly. It's this existential sense of "otherness" to people. I just have this strong intuitive feeling that I'm not at all like most other people I meet and it bothers me. I don't know if this is an ASD thing or something unique to me.

I am this way too, so it's definitely not unique to you. It's either an ASD thing, high I.Q. thing, or both. If it's both, I think the ASD contributes about 70-80% to that feeling.



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08 May 2010, 6:51 pm

marshall wrote:
Same here. Boredom or mundane tasks create a mental vacuum in which negative energy surfaces from within. With depression there's always this negative energy just under the surface that seems to underlie everything you do. The only goal is to keep my mind active in something stimulating so I can escape the sense of dissatisfaction with my corporeal existence. Boredom exasperates the problem so much that I spend most of my time desperately trying to avoid it.


You are escaping from one unsatisfying thing into another. Being with what you are doing can be surprisingly pleasant; In Buddhist verrnacular it is sometimes called one pointedness of mind. When you escape into thinking and fantasies - anything other than what you are doing - you divide yourself and you divide your efforts, and in that division there is suffering.

But please don't take my word for it, find out for yourself. Next time you perform tasks that you would normally escape from with thinking, bring your full consciousness to it instead.


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08 May 2010, 6:55 pm

I can relate. I'm always think about something, even in work I'm doing my job while thinking about my interests. I also get frustrated because other people aren't interested in the deeper things in life, like how we got here, is there life elsewhere, etc. All they seem to care about is sports, etc. Bunch of primitive apes :p

I also get extremely bored/empty/depressed when I'm not obsessing over something. My obsessions tend to be short lived, jumping to something new after a period of time. At the minute I'm obsessing over the iPad but once it's released over here and I have one I knownot will fade.



marshall
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08 May 2010, 7:02 pm

Horus wrote:
Oh I can definitely relate. I just don't think my own thoughts about anything are even remotely deep or original. I only wish they were. Much like yourself, the spirit which guides the "intellectual life" within me is VERY willing. But unlike you, the flesh of my brain seems very weak :( and nothing in this universe causes me more pain than that realization.

All I know is that i'd much rather read a book about one topic of interest or another than socialize, exercise, shop, sit in a bar, go to a ballgame, or any number of things people seem to take pleasure in. I wanted to be omniscient...but I had to settle for being closer to an ape than most humans. :(


I don't think being "deep" is predicated on having an above average brain power. It's more of an emotional thing. It's the quality of always wanting to know "why" and deriving pleasure in searching for the answer. Yet people stifle this pleasure when they overfocus on how they "measure" up in terms of intellectual prowess.



marshall
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08 May 2010, 7:15 pm

Moog wrote:
marshall wrote:
Same here. Boredom or mundane tasks create a mental vacuum in which negative energy surfaces from within. With depression there's always this negative energy just under the surface that seems to underlie everything you do. The only goal is to keep my mind active in something stimulating so I can escape the sense of dissatisfaction with my corporeal existence. Boredom exasperates the problem so much that I spend most of my time desperately trying to avoid it.


You are escaping from one unsatisfying thing into another. Being with what you are doing can be surprisingly pleasant; In Buddhist verrnacular it is sometimes called one pointedness of mind. When you escape into thinking and fantasies - anything other than what you are doing - you divide yourself and you divide your efforts, and in that division there is suffering.

But please don't take my word for it, find out for yourself. Next time you perform tasks that you would normally escape from with thinking, bring your full consciousness to it instead.


Thinking is not unsatisfying to me. The fact that life gets in the way of thinking is what's unsatisfying. The need to be so focused on money and other things related to survival in the world is what makes life unsatisfying.

Also, I don't believe I have the ability to become completely absorbed with a tedious task. My mind is always active no matter what I'm doing. It never stops. Even if I'm in such a relaxed/tired state that I don't feel like I'm thinking in any way that could be expressed in words there is something going on in the background of my mind, abstract / wordless thoughts that are difficult to describe, almost like thoughts in dreams.

I don't view thinking as a means to an end either. That seems to be what the world is bent on telling us. That everything in life is a means to obtain something else, yet the ironic part is there really is no end. There is no point where we get to just sit and look back on everything and feel completely content. At least I can't imagine life as that. It's seems awfully mundane and pointless to me.



Last edited by marshall on 08 May 2010, 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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08 May 2010, 7:29 pm

Janissy wrote:
Thinking is overrated.

Chop wood.

Carry water.



Chopping wood and carrying water requires thought.

ruveyn