It's Not Lack of Empathy: It's Simply Different Methods.

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Someone is mad/upset and their concerns are brushed off by most people who simply don't want to be bothered trying to gain insight on why they are mad/upset: Can an Aspie analyze a situation in their mind and talk to that person privately to find out the underlying issues that person may have and make more progress with that person if we just LISTEN.

Maybe the lack of empathy is a myth: Perhaps we can empathize as good as NTs but we simply use different methods to empathize.

Quite. I am lousy at saying the right words and puttingv on the right faces and making the right hestures and noises to SEEM empathetic. And I am not great at telling what emotion underlies NT words and expressions.

But I am GREAT at listening and calming and supporting and sugesting, called on even by very NT types when they need something deeper than mainstream sympathy.

the "lack of empathy" myth was already debunked in 2006:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j2k1732t42110565/

I lack empathy.

You know, being unable to feel the emotions of others when I haven't experienced the event personally that caused the emotion in others. I have no bearing. Now sympathy, yeah, as I've had direct experience.

Wow aspi-rant, I had no idea. I was just about to say before your post that just because aspies are observed to not show signs of empathy doesn't mean we lack it. Challenging that assumption is incredibly difficult since we are essentially told by NTs "trust us, you don't have this characteristic" even though the only way to know that is to EMPATHIZE and try to understand the way we are inside and how we react to others, albeit mainly internally with most aspies.

Mind you, I haven't read that article fully yet but intend to.

I don't lack empathy, nor do I lack compassion. However, I have a low threshold for people whining about problems they brought upon themselves, or expect me to treat them gingerly because they have had a rough life.

Just had an interesting conversation with my wife about this the other day. She was watching one of those criminal court case docu-drama shows. My wife had all sorts of compassion and empathy for the accused, and felt I was being harsh in suggesting that the 25 years the accused was sentenced to upon conviction was a fair minimum.

I had to explain that regardless of my feelings of compassion for the accused, and empathy in understanding how she could have experienced a psychotic break... I still don't want to have someone walking around who can tie up her husband, stab him dozens of times, stop to put the kid back to bed who came knocking on the bedroom door, go to the kitchen and get a fresh knife, and stab the hubby some more, a total of nearly 200 wounds, drag the body to a shallow grave off the back patio dug in advance, file a police report claiming abuse, and when later arrested for suspicion of murder claim self defense necessitiated because of her feelings of helplessness and fear. This person has demonstrated she's dangerous. What if next time she feels feaful and persecuted by the neighbor who complains about her dog barking, or being short-changed in the drive-through?

There used to be some rehab center commercial years ago where someone narrated about how they lost of nearly lost so much, and did crazy things, but it wasn't them, it was the cocaine. Now I understand this was a center dealing with addicts and perhaps that bit of a cop out might get a few extra bodies into rehab, but from my point of view, no Mr or Mrs Narrator, it wasn't the cocaine that lost its job, nearly lost its house, ran red lights, and nearly lost its children. It was you. It may not be the you that you want to see, the you that you want to be, but it was you. Sorry, but you are not going to get better until you figure that out.

I've been around the block enough to usually recognize when someone is venting or hurting. You might think from the above that I am anxious to point out their flaws kick them while they are down. That's not the case. But I will not tolerate abuse from them just because they've had a bad day. They don't get to cope with their hurts and frustrations by hurting me. And if they do lash out at me, I call them on it. And that's when I get told I have no compassion or empathy. That's BS. Pure manipulation and emotional blackmail, someone trying to guilt me into giving them a pass for their poor behavior.

Hmm..That makes me wonder who does have empathy. Yesterday at one of the offices I clean, someone said one of the employees (with whom I am very friendly) wouldn't be in because her brother had died the day before. She said that Lynda was distraught. Everyone clearly felt sorry because they liked Lynda and were sorry that she was so sad. I even knew the brother casually, he lived in the same apartment complex and I knew a bit of his personal struggles because of my rapport with Linda, but I feel no sense of loss. Anyway, no one really felt the same thing that Lynda feels and they are all clearly neurotypical.

Empathy, in terms of feeling what others are feeling, I can do

Empathy, in terms of letting them feel that I'm feeling what they're feeling, I can't do.

I can try, but in general it doesn't work. That's the disability part of aspergers.

that's a good workable explanation for me.

For example, I'm glad I won't see Lynda for a week because if I said I'm sorry now she might start crying and then I wouldn't know what to do. I'll send her a card, it's easier to communicate sympathy that way.

The "experts" don't have a clear definition of what empathy is. According to some, having less than normal interest in chit-chat / small-talk is synonymous with lack of empathy.

If people want to share real issues with me I'm capable of being a good listener. I'm just not good at filling the air with empty conversation. I mean, I'm perfectly capable of realizing that NT's get a "warm fuzzy" feeling out of talking fluff so I try my best to humor them, but after a while it gets incredibly draining. Maybe this means I lack empathy. I honestly don't know. Maybe I lack empathy because I'm incapable of being falsely cheery and upbeat all the time.

Apparently only happy extroverts have empathy.

Last edited by marshall on 18 May 2010, 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm not great at initial empathy, I've noticed. I don't decipher the emotional context of a situation unless there are obvious cues. For instance, I may not realize during a conversation that someone is feeling sad or is angry with me unless they say something about it. Once I know, I'm as empathetic as the next person and very compassionate unless the person is being overly dramatic and silly. I do recognize that I don't communicate my emotions well or in ways that most people do, but, as the OP suggests, I have been told that I'm a good listener and others do come to me when they want solid, impartial advice.

I think I empathize quite well, but I am very awkward at showing it, but I can do much better if I get all of the facts and details about what happened. After I understand exactly what caused another pain, I can sympathize and then I can relate to similar experiences I've had myself, which allows me to feel the actual emotions (I think).

I have a different kind of empathy. I have empathy because I can detach and analyze other people's situations and see anfd value their perspective without my own feelings clouding the picture. It takes time to reflect though. I also have echo-emotica and kind of suck other people's feelings up like a sponge without being able to separate them from my own.

Here's why my EQ is low:
I don't know how to EXPRESS empathy, it's a guessing game that causes me some grief.

I assume people can see rationality in the midst of emotion just because I can.

I have difficulty predicting other people's reactions and identifying my own emotions.

I miss a lot of signals unless I consciously look for them.

I wonder how much of the "lack of empathy" junk is related to the following problem.

Folks with ASDs are known to have different priorities, and perceptions to others. Therefore, it makes sense that we would experience different emotions related to a particular situation than NTs.

For example, I like the truth. It infuriates me when folks try to spare my feelings by lying to me. I can't for the life of me understand that. So, I might feel enraged by the same behavior that would bring an "NT" comfort. I have never, do not, and will never understand how lying to someone is kindness; so I cannot see why someone would think my being honest with them would be hurtful. I cannot empathize with this.

But let me turn this around for a minute. Would the NT empathize with my rage when they are lying to spare my feelings? NO. They wouldn't. They don't put honesty at the same priority, they've not experienced what I have related to dishonesty. They would claim the rage was inexplicable, "I was just trying to be nice", and that my reaction was completely unpredictable, and not understandable.

The way out of this for me is to explain that I have a hard time telling when people are lying, and that I take things literally. I use the information around me to make decisions for my life, so it's important that I have accurate information to go on. Once I explain why I need honesty so badly, they can understand me better, and empathize more. I've noticed that a lot of ASD folks resort to logic because they don't have the experiential knowledge of an NT. We are able to share a rational experience together. (They've had weaknesses, and can imagine not being able to tell if someone is lying by working it out intellectually. From that, they can derive the emotion "rage" since they have now learned that they are playing on my weakness by lying, and playing on people's weaknesses is likely to elicit rage in general.)

However, it doesn't seem to work too well going the other way, because many of their bases for behavior aren't related to logic, so how would they rationally (since there's no shared emotional experience between the two people ASD and NT) explain it to me? I would just keep saying it doesn't make sense, and they'd keep saying that it's just the emotional reaction that they have to it. they're comforted by lying, and i'm enraged by it. there's no logic in their behavior, it's not based on reason, and I can't relate to their emotion.

anyway, I said all of that to say this. People with ASDs often do empathize with others, while seeming unempathetic to NT's. However, I think it works both ways, I haven't seen a lot of empathy from NTs towards the things that bother me, or bring me delight.

I would say that a lack of empathy is best listed under psychopathology rather than ASD. Additionally, I see no reason that they can't coexist as well.

Empathy is something we feel, like pain, like joy, like beauty, like sadness, feelings that pop up in our mind. Aspies don't feel empathy. They are fully capable of understanding what other people is going thru, but that's not empathy, that's just... understanding.