Work hard and you'll get a head, what a crock

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I have busted my butt on tons of jobs since 1988 and never got anything out of except insults from co-workers, a small paycheck, and a feeling of I am just chasing my tail. Even though I do very well at the jobs I do most of the time better than my co-workers and I am always turned down for leadership positions and raises. When I complain they just shrug their shoulders and say do you really think they respect you enough to listen to you as a manager. The only reason I was laid off from my old job was because I was the only one still living with family and did not have a family to support some of the guys who were not laid off hide when the managers aren't there and I am never late and rarely sick. They are still working because they got some slut pregnate with their bastard child.

I did not even think of college since I have a severe learning disabilities involving anything that deals with math and I cannot remember anything let alone retain what is being taught. I have never had a job that paid over $10.00/hr I cannot afford an apartment, bills, medical insurance, medicine for my blood pressure, or put any money away for old age. I will probably be doing low paying jobs way into my seventies and eighties. I have signed up for some local job training for a medical biller if this does not work thats it for me. Any suggestions am completly out of ideas?

First off: what do you love?

When deciding on a career, if possible, find one you don't hate doing. Even better, find one you love doing. So what do you love, and is there someway to make it pay?

What are your obsessions? I would be very surprised if medical billing is one of them.

Hard work DOES pay off.

The problem is that "getting ahead" is about much more than just being a hard worker.

For people like us, we have to find avenues to pour our energies into where hard work alone is the major point for where we get ahead.

I've been working hard, most of my life, and it has payed off.

you won't get far without hard work.
BUT you also have to work "smart."
otherwise you just get old, tired, and burnt out.

I am going to say some things that you might not like - but please remember I am saying them to help you out of a mental/emotional and financial cycle.

First: you advise that you are turned down for "leadership positions." You also advise that you have severe learning disabilities, have no college education and trouble with math.

Usually (not always, but usually) management positions require a certain amount of education beyond high school. Also, math concepts are important in most management positions (from payroll to scheduling, inventory, and other details which managers take care of). I didn't have a chance to review other posts or your full profile - but managers are also often expected to be good with people (both staff relations and client relations). If you are diagnosed with Autism, the skills of working with people might not be a strong point either. A management position may not be in the cards for you.

Now having said that - I want to assure you that being a "manager" or "leader" is not the be-all-and-end-all. My own father was an electrician and spent many years as a staff electrician - not a foreman, a supervisor or a manager. He had a friend who were plumbers, carpenters and painters. Many of them stayed in the base positions. Just because they were not "leaders" in their field does not mean that they were not happy doing their jobs, their jobs weren't valuable or that they didn't get a reasonably good paycheck. Like I said, being a manager is not the be-all-and-end-all.

You need to take a look at what your current aptitude and skills set are. Aptitude is what comes naturally to you. Some people are detail oriented and are good with words. Others are detail oriented and good with numbers. Some are better at personal relations and have lousy attention to detail. Some people are mechanically inclined, some are better with paperwork. You need to determine your aptitude.

As for skills sets - what skills do you already posses? This will depend on what jobs who have had. If you worked in fast food - you might be familiar with food safety (keeping food at the proper temperature). If you worked in janitorial - you might be familiar with proper cleaning technique and proper use of cleaning products.

After you have determined your aptitude and skills set - you need to seek out jobs and workplaces that will benefit from your skills sets and aptitudes. You would avoid places where your weaknesses would cause problems for you and your employer. Once you have determined jobs that would be good for you - research the wage scales of these jobs. I'll use janitorial work as an example again. This is an interesting one as the wage can be minimum wage in some workplaces or pretty reasonable (for this type of work) in another workplace. Apply to places where the wage is reasonable.

Try to find list of the top 100 workplaces in your state, province or area (in my country there is a book entitled "the top 100 companies to work for in Canada." It lists progressive companies that are known for treating their employees well. Try to apply to these companies.

In the meantime - take stock of your attitude. If you come across as bitter - your employer and co-workers will pick up on it. Try to use positive language. I noticed that you used said that you observed some employees with a less than admirable work ethic still working because they had families to support. The words "they got their slut girlfriends pregnant with their bastard child" drip with bitterness and a judgmental attitude. It also suggests that you might have some issues with anger.

I'm not saying that your observations are incorrect. I once had a job where I was laid off and a single mum was retained. I didn't agree with this decision. I made a choice though. I could have filed a complaint advising that my human rights were violated. I could have just moved on to better things and not bothered. I chose to move onto better things. I certainly did not use offensive, derogatory language about the woman's child!! By making my own choices, I was able to shed anger at a rather unjust situation. By shedding anger - I come across to others as a stable, responsible person that someone might want to hire.

As for your original post - Hard Work - what a Crock. I actually agree...

Hard work on its own will not get you ahead. You need to work hard and SMART. Even if you never become the head of the company - you can choose your places of employment carefully, matching your skills to their needs. You can either be pleasant to your co-workers, or you can try to find a type of employment where you will mostly be working alone.

You can't change the world. You can only change yourself and your responses to the world.

I wish you the best of luck in considering your skills and strengths and researching compatible workplaces in your area.

I did work hard my former co-workers were suprised when I did not get any raises. When they complained about it to the bosses thet would just tell them it was between me and them. my metal finishing skills saved them a lot of time and money when they did not have to rework or re do parts that the machines or the employees managed to disfigure.

When I was laid off the co-workers who worked there as long as me were shocked when the bosses told them even though I have senority over about four people who had been doing jobs I could do (Probably do better) the only difference is I do not have kids, pay rent, or own a home. Half of the guys that did not get laid off I had at least 4 years seniority over them, they were always calling in sick because of hang overs, they would hide in the bathroom to talk on their cell phones, hide behind machines so they could play video games on their cell phones, and one even got caught stealing a small air compressor by one of the owners sons. These are the people they deem better than me even though I was never late, did more than my fair share, hardly ever called in sick, and always put out good product. All that seperated me from them is I do not have any illigedimate children.The whole thing is very insulting even some of my co-worker said I was screwed, In their words it was a slap in my face. If someone in this situation who was not mad, bitter, or felt let down then that person would have to be emotionally numb or brain dead, There is no point for me to try hard it does not pay off for me, I am the one they love to hate where ever I go.

The reason I am so angry about the situation a former co-worker called me up to complain about how much money the company is loosing because of the owners let good people go just to keep the scrubs only because they do not want to feel bad about letting people go with kids. They are loosing money due to these guys causing machines to break down because they are off somewhere playing, parts are being scrapped even though they can be fixed, they are constantly having to order new metal stock to run more parts do too the screw ups, and there are days when they have four people in the entire shop because the others called in sick because its a nice day. They let go two more good workers one gay guy whose boyfriend makes a ton of money and a guy whose wife has a job with good medical insurance. They keep it up they will have only the slackers working there,

As you said in a previous post directed at me....your situation mirrors my own.

While there are some differences, we're both in our 40's, bad at math (and otherwise learning-disabled, at least in my case), living with family, impoverished,
etc.....

I haven't worked anywhere for over a year. The depression i've dealt with for the past year is so bad I can't envision bagging groceries part time.

For the past 11 years, i've only worked on and off for a family friend as a salesperson in his small retail business. I Never made much more than $10.00 per hour there and no
matter what, it wasn't never enough to allow me to be totally financially independent
of my family thanks also to the high cost of living around here.

He was mostly understanding and tolerant of my issues. He finally laid
me off for good last May because his business is in the tank, his house is in foreclosure
and he can no longer afford to have any employees.


All this and my last IQ test yielded a score of 143.


I am planning to go back to college myself, but I don't even know for what yet.
I only have an AA in liberal arts right now, but i'd have to make up the math
requirements needed for just about any major that has a snowball's chance
of getting me anywhere vocationally-speaking. I dropped intro algebra twice
in college and opted for course substitutions in math which I was eligible for
because of my documented learning disability. I will admit I didn't try as hard
as I could've though. I've heard several people even here on WP claim they took
intro algebra 5 times or more WITH tutoring and accommodations and some still
haven't passed it. I only tried to pass it twice without any accommodations or
tutoring whatsoever. That said....I have no idea whether I could ultimately handle
the math requirements of a major which requires any. Even no more than college
algebra. My psychologists have told me I can based upon my neuropsych/IQ
results. They told me I could probably even handle calculus, but it would be a
struggle for me. I can't honestly say I don't have doubts about their claims here
based upon all my past experiences with math.

Trade/technical school is mostly out of the question for me. Most jobs in those
fields require good visual-spatial/mechanical reasoning and i'm probably even
worse in those areas than I am with math. Add on the problems with social skills,
executive functioning, motor skills and i'm damn-near unemployable. I also may
have some long-term memory problems which may make it difficult, if not
impossible, to succeed even in academic fields which involve little or no math
at all. For example....these problems may make it impossible for me to be a history
professor or something.

I thought I might find SOME people like me when I initially started coming
to Wrongplanet. Instead....i've mostly found people who majoring in computer
engineering or something who can do calculus in their sleep. Alot of people
here have good jobs, relationships, etc...and I, as usual, am the last in line.

All this and NOTHING on my neuropsychological evals/IQ tests would suggest
i'm significantly different from alot of these aformentioned people. There has got
to be something wrong with my brain, genes...whatever...that no one, myself
included, has ever discovered.

My life has been a living hell for the past forty years. I'm not really complaining
about it, though it may seem that way. I'm stating the facts as i've perceived them
and I would be totally mystified by anyone in my shoes who didn't find it a living
hell. But....since i've never been suicidal I have no other choice but to carry on until
my natural death. I might as well TRY to get something worthwhile out of this life
even if all hope is against me. Sorry I can't be of much help. Just wanted you to
know you're not the only person here in your type of situation. Beyond that, I can't
even help myself right now let alone anyone else. Other posters in this thread have
offered great practical advice anyway and I would not be presumptuous enough
to think I could add much to it.

You already have a working knowledge of medical terminology. How about going to school for something in the healthcare support fields. There are programs that are very short because they are very job-specific. If you get a job that is behind-the-scenes, you can minimise or completely avoid patient interaction. All hospitals have night shifts and most people dislike them so if you train in a healthcare support position, you may be able to get a night shift position where you have minimal co-worker interaction (since it's skeleton crew) and the patients are asleep. In any case, I'm not advising med school, nursing school or pharmacy school, all of which require significant math as well as other skills you say are weak in you. But there are a lot of support positions which may be a good fit.

Last edited by Janissy on 20 May 2010, 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I doubt they hate you, that would require an expenditure of emotional energy. More likely they just have zero regard for you as an individual because they sense that you are not one of them.

And you're absolutely right, hard work will get you nowhere in the modern workplace. In fact, dedication to, and excellence at your job is one of the first things that sets you apart from the herd and makes them dislike you. Because they can't read you easily and you don't go out of your way to socialize with them, they assume you're intentionally showing them up, making them look inferior by outperforming them.

What gets people ahead in the workforce is duplicity, flattery, lying, superficial socializing with people you have no compunctions about betraying, and the natural ability to choose popular cliques in order to gang up on anyone deemed 'different' and use them as a scapegoat to cover for your own (and the group's) deficiencies. Unfortunately, it requires a particular gene, common to neurotypicals, I call the Ass-Kiss gene and Autistics don't have it, can't develop it and can never learn to fake it. Without it, no amount of excellence in performance will get you promoted above intern drone level. People don't get promoted based on talent or performance on the job, but by their ability to curry favor with those above them. If phrases like "Heeey, good-lookin' kids!" and "I love that tie" and "We would be nothing without you running the show" don't fall naturally and automatically from your lips the moment you enter someone's office, you're never going to be promotion material.

It's the same gene that gets people raises. When someone without the ass-kiss gene asks for a raise, the management NTs can smell that they're different, that they aren't likely to be confrontational enough to argue much, and because of their peculiarities won't be missed much even if they quit, so there's no need to give them what they've asked for. I know what it's like to survive on minimum age while others doing the same job are making enough to afford homes and new cars. I was told things like "I know we won that regional award for excellence because of your work, but that was last month - what have you done for me lately?"

And as if that weren't enough of a kick in the 'nads, the Aspergian problems with Executive Function make it unlikely that we will manage to establish any long-range plan for the future even given a fair salary. I only know in a sort of vague conceptual way what a 401k is. Stock portfolio? I only broke the 20K a year ceiling once in 35 years.

The best you can do for now is find something you like doing, something you enjoy so much you'd do it for free, and get a job doing that. Be constantly on the lookout for other opportunities and ready to jump to the next at a moment's notice, because the odd-man-out is the first one fired every time. Frankly, you're probably looking at Public Assistance eventually, but it's unlikely you qualify at your age. I do think you'd feel a lot better about everything if, once you're working again, you get out on your own. Just the independence of a tiny apartment or rental house will allow you to feel a little more control over your life.

Willard, well put. You've just described corporate america pretty well.

I managed to hold jobs for 15 years now, somehow. My experiences match what you've posted. My differences have almost gotten me fired on a number of occasions. Somehow I survived each time.

There's a guy trying to get me fired right now, not because I did anything wrong, but just because he's an ass-kissing favor-trading good old boy, and I'm the brilliant weirdo who keeps to himself and keeps the computers running on his own. I know about his efforts to get rid of me because I have a few friends in this company.

I've thought about it, but there are so many barriers in my case I don't
know where to begin. First of all...my "working knowledge" of medical
terminology is all-but nonexistence IMO thanks to my poor long-term
memory. I can't imagine taking classes in A & P, chemistry, physics, etc...
For one thing....chem and physics involves alot of math I haven't even taken.
All three also involve alot of visual-spatial/non-verbal concepts and I might
as well be blind insofar as my abilities in that domain carry me. Even respiratory
therapists and X-ray techs have to take such classes.

Now i'm not saying I couldn't handle these classes ultimately....I really don't
know for sure. But i'd have alot of math and science pre-reqs to make up
and those alone would take me at least two years. If I just have to make up
the math for something like psychology (which is what i'd LIKE to major in)
then i'd just have to get through college algebra and S & P. I really don't know
yet though....I want to major in something that's going to be realistic, (career-wise)
interesting to me and challenging.

Psychology would be interesting and challenging enough....far more interesting
than anything in the medical field. But I think we all know that a mere BS/BA in
psych alone isn't going to get me anywhere. Anything in the medical field would
bore me to death, but it would be challenging...perhaps too challenging. I don't
really trust my motor skills too much either, my hands shake, especially in
intimate social situations and anything "hands-on" like drawing blood (and
even medical assistants do that) or that required good fine motor skills would
be questionable for me at best. This is not to say i've ruled out grad school for
psych either though. A BS/BA degree in psych might allow me to work as a psych
tech while i'm in grad school. The pay isn't great and the work can be stressful
and even dangerous, but it probably beats bagging groceries for 7 bucks an
hour. I really don't know yet....none of my options look ideal, but i'm going to
have to do something or bagging groceries for the rest of my life is a guarantee.

God knows it may be anyway, even if I do manage to get a nice spiffy
degree, certificate, etc.....in something...even a Master's or a PhD. After all,
i'll be hard-pressed to find someone willing to hire a 40-something person
with my virtually nonexistent work history no matter what my educational
credentials are.

Yep.....i've really screwed up my life about as bad as a human being could.

To this day....I truly don't know if could've been any different regardless of
what I did or how hard I tried. As you know....I have sound reasons (IMO) to
believe there's ALOT more wrong with my brain than my IQ/neuropsych tests
would suggest. And i'm not having the best luck in my attempts to access some
deeper neurological investigations.

The only hope I have is that it CAN be better for whatever remaining time
I have left on this earth. This hope is hard to sustain with 40 years of unspeakable
wreckage staring me in the face everyday. I realize I probably come across as
negative, but I try to be a very realistic person too. If any person was to ponder
the reality of my microcosm, i'd be astonished if they could say I have much
hope. Everyday I try like hell to find SOMETHING to be hopeful for, but this
bastardly depression just won't budge.

So your advice about the medical field is certainly not without it's merits.
But if I was going to do that, i'd have to narrow it down to something very
specific I feel confident I could handle for one thing. For another, i'd have to
forgo getting into anything that's interesting to me because the medical field
(unlike history, philosophy, psychology, literature, music, some of the sciences,
sociology, politics, etc....) certainly isn't. I mean I don't care anything about the
islet of langerhans in the Pancreas or something. That kind of dry, sterile,
soulless anatomy crap just bores me to tears. Still....I might be willing to suck
up the boredom of it all at this point and just get my intellectual kicks
elsewhere. But i'd have to find something within the medical field which
pays OK AND wouldn't require me to make up a bunch of math/science
courses I never had. I don't want to spend the next five years in school just
to be a respiratory therapist or something.

a lot of med tech positions don't actually require much math, or the math heavy sciences. A lot of it is memorization of basic facts, rules, and procedures. It's interesting work, I'm told, and rewarding. And it pays decently. Seriously, some of the most math-phobic people I know managed to get through nursing school. It may yet be worth looking into for you.

Horus, everytime I read your posts I cannot believe how much your life and personality is similar to mine. I took training in medical billing because its in the growing medical field that does not deal with personal contact or math.

Most math for health care professions is pretty straightforward stuff. It gets more complicated in pharmacology and nuclear medicine though.

Working hard and doing a good job used to be the way to get ahead but not anymore. Now it is all about how much social value you bring to the company. Whether or not the job gets done means nothing anymore. I am studying pharmacology and nuclear medicine right now and that is the only profession left where hard work and getting the job done correctly still has some value. At least for now it still does.

Last edited by Metal_Man on 20 May 2010, 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.