What do you think of 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder'?

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Now, if there was just a single thing that deserved the cake for being the most self-defeating the medical establishment came up with, this must be it. I was reading about 'PANS', an otherwise interesting - and realistic - condition... which just had to be ruined by the mention of the above as one of the symptoms... no, it was worse before emailing them, they simply said 'resisting authority'... OMFG I had no idea every rebellion in the history of the world had PANS then? No wonder there are people who think some medical conditions aren't actual, when there is this nonsense that is an obvious attempt at suppressing dissent.

But seriously, f**k whoever came up with this for not only giving murderous dictators a medical get-out-of-jail card, but also discrediting medical conditions in general with its tentacles reaching many other conditions like some idiotic excuse of society.

"Resisting authority" is just a short hand description of it in a LONG list of other things you read somewhere published by someone who obviously didn't have the time and space to explain it fully.

There is more to it than just that. Not that I am any kind of expert on it.

Everything I know about the condition I learned from one episode of Dr. Phil, but...it was a memorable episode!

A young lady exhibiting the disorder was a guest on Dr. Phil once. Quite interesting.

She was there because she fought with her parents- but fought in a constant- beyond normal rebellion way.

Another young lady, a schoolmate, of her was also on. And this second young lady told the first one about how she and her friends thought the first girl was "cool" because of her constant rebellion, and her unorthodox style of dress, etc. Which I as a viewer kinda understood because she did come off as a kind of female James Dean ( I was starting to get a bit turned on to her myself). But then the first girl got livid and started tongue lashing her admirer because "I don't wan ANY body imitating me, and blah blah blah...". And she kept up the fever pitch like that, and started to go from looking defiantly fascinating to looking tiresome and ridiculous, and even laughable, and it gradually became obvious that something was not right with her head. And then they had a guest expert on to explain how she was an example "oppositional defiant disorder". So it did look to me that what was being manifested on that show was a real disorder. A pathologically unrelenting type of constant anger. Not just normal adolescent rebellion.

So...that's my "expert" take on it. Lol!

Seems like a classic example of turning a symptom into a problem, to me. Much like "intermittent explosive disorder." I mean, are there genuinely people who simply rage out for no reason?



Did they ever ask why, or really explore her parents? I had a therapist once who thought my brother fit the description of oppositional defiant disorder. And he certainly has severe issues with authority, but he was also alternately treated like a God and like scum as a child. His problem isn't really some inexplicable disrespect for a authority, it's that he was taught to believe social rules don't apply to him. And when reality shows him he's wrong, he thinks reality is wrong, and fights it.

In both these cases, Oppositional Defiant Disorder and Intermittent Explosive Disorder, I can't help but feel people just don't want to blame the parents/caregiver. And our social systems, like work and education, which are not designed for people as people actually are.

I think that ODD is the official DSM-5 diagnosis of a common disorder colloquially known as "adolescence"; a diagnosis of which makes treatment of anything even remotely related to adolescence third-party reimbursable.

Well ...Dr Phil came back to center stage to do his thing. Which is to interrogate both generations of the dysfunctional family in question, and to grill the parents for their "ownership" in the problem. And labeling a problem is not the same thing as saying "the parents aren't to blame". It just means "here is the problem..now lets explore what the cause is", and the cause of any syndrome is usually considered to be bad parenting.

I think I read somewhere it’s a pattern for sociopaths to get diagnosed with ODD as a kid, then Conduct Disorder as a teen, then Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) as an adult.

And I’ve always thought of Intermittent Explosive Disorder as similar to meltdowns, in the sense that both causes outbursts that the individual can’t control.

I think symptoms of other disorders can sometimes be mistaken for ODD by people who don't bother trying to find out what the real causes of the issues are. My parents were 1ce told by some kinda skewl professional that I had ODD. Thing is that I have alot of other disabilities besides Aspergers that others did NOT understand & others did NOT understand my Aspergers or were even aware of it. I had a hard time understanding authority sometimes like I didn't know what they wanted from me. Things I said came off as rude to them & others. I was bullied a lot & the bullies would gang up on me & lie & get me in trouble. I was also under aLOT of stress cuz of all this along with having dyslexia & other related disabilities & it caused me to have minor meltdowns at skewl. Ironic thing is that in one of my reviews for a job I had it said I was very eager to please management which sounds like the opposite of ODD to me. I really don't get how someone who truly has ODD can become the opposite 1ce he/she reaches the workforce.

We have a young member on WP who's diagnosed with it. She once made a post explaining what it meant which lessened my skepticism of the disorder, although I can't recall where to find that thread now. She mentioned, I think, that ODD is exclusively a label for kids and once you turn eighteen, it can no longer apply to you. In light of that, I don't think its intention is to provide any kind of justification for...dictators and the like. It just identifies extreme patterns of behaviors, like any disorder does. We can say, "But all kids are defiant sometimes, it's part of growing up!" but the same can be applied to things like ADHD - most kids are overactive. It's when those behaviors are atypically ingrained and disrupt the child's quality of life and functioning ability that it becomes a clinically identifiable disorder.

Since nothing less than The Mayo Clinic recognizes Oppositional Defiant Disorder as legitimate, then I'm inclined to believe that it is real.

Source: This Mayo Clinic Article.

It’s something which seems to be sort of a “catch all” should no definitive diagnosis be obtained—and the kid seems sort of rebellious.

Sort of like Asperger's Syndrome, in that effect.

I *Have* Oppositional Defiant Disorder, and it is a lot more than just being rebellious, and it SUCKS to have. It really does suck to have. It is a compulsive dislike and distrust of authority, that comes from them in the past not knowing what to do for you. You feel like you are in danger when you aren't in control, so you lash out when others try to control you.

It's not just bad behavior, or being a brat. It's a survival method turned mental illness.

No dictator could even be given it, the diagnosis wears off once you turn 18.

I'm told that "rebelliousness" is to ODD as "sadness" is to Clinical Depression.

Does that make sense to you?

Sort of

A psychiatrist suspected that my daughter might have ODD and ADHD. she constantly defies authority. she argues and says no all day long. If she does not get her way, she will have a meltdown. it is very different from other children. If you spend a day with someone with ODD or someone who has the characteristics you would know its different from other kids saying no. This is a non stop thing which will drain those around the person. her teachers have complained to me many times. its a constant fight that never ends. As many of you have mentioned if someone with ODD does not get the proper help, they will then go on to have conduct disorder (teen years) and Anti social personality disorder.

I think it is a real thing and it is not a child that is a free thinker and questions everything, this is a real disorder that causes an impairment in the child's life in educational environment and at home where they cannot function. It can lead to conduct disorder and they can have ASPD when they are grown ups if not outgrown.

I knew a kid with it and he most likely had Conduct disorder as well because he would hit his mother, threaten her and break things and he would hurt other students and attack teachers in his school to get his way. He was also pretty manipulative because he could act "normal" if he had to and if he knows he can't get away with it or if he knows about consequences he wouldn't like. But he used it as manipulation for his own gain.

I think it is important to distinguish the symptoms between other disorders as well because of overlap. A child isn't always defiant if they don't do as they say due to not understanding rules and directions, not because they don't like authority. It could also be because they need to under stand the rules and they have to make sense, not because they don't like authority.

Pathological demand Avoidance and ODD sound very familiar because the symptoms look exactly the same. In PDA, it's about not liking demands while for ODD, they just simply don't like authority. But they both are still demands so they are very much a like. Plus they both engage in violence and manipulation from what I have seen. But then again, this could also be a sign of anxiety which is also why it's important to know how often do these symptoms occur and when do they occur and how pervasive it is. If it just comes and goes, it's not PDA or ODD. I often think PDA is just some form of anxiety and I wonder what would happen if they got treated for anxiety, would they be able to handle demands better? Anxiety is common in autism after all. Even I have troubles with demands when I am anxious and also if something is thrown at me at the last minute, I need time to adjust but that doesn't mean I have PDA or ODD.