Autism and Selfishness

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I immediately realise that most people who read that title will feel indignant. I'm not saying that autism makes people selfish, I just want to understand different people's perspectives and experiences along these lines.

I was thinking about this because I read a couple of experiences of women in labour and their AS husbands left the room because they felt tired or had a headache making the woman feel alone. Of course they didn't realise she would feel like that, they just knew they needed to lie down. My Mum is still annoyed that she had to drive herself to the hospital when she was in labour with my sister because my Dad had work to do (he has alot of autistic traits). Although, I've always been a bit dubious about this story as my Mum is prone to exaggerate.

On the other hand my Mum has autistic traits. One night my sister, her and myself had planned to go out, but we weren't sure if my Mum was actually going as she wasn't getting ready. So we asked her if we should get a lift in our neighbour's car to get there. She said, if you want. So we called our neighbour who was going the same way. As soon as we got in the car, my Mum came out of the house and got in her car and drove off. That made us look really silly because we had asked for a lift and we were all going to the same place. Our neighbour said,"I thought your Mum wasn't going?" That's what we thought too.

But then in defence people will say that the NTs don't understand and they should give those with autism a bit more understanding.

Where should the line be drawn? When does something stop being just a trait of autism and become selfish?

Umm....the lack of empathy causes selfishness.

And before you jump all over me and say that people with AS are empathetic, well, they are--but only if they are motivated to be that way, sometimes.

My best example of that?

My ex-boyfriend got obsessed with another girl about 2 1/2 years into our five year relationship, and then started treating me badly.

When I called him on it, finally, he said, "But it was never my intent that this relationship would work out."

He had no motivation to care (keeping me), so he did not have any empathy about treating me badly for years because it interfered with his obsession.

As for being empathetic, and thus not selfish, it has not been my experience that people with AS are selfless, unless they have very serious motivations for being that way.

That's pretty selfish.

Neurotypical people can be selfish too. It just manifests differently. At heart, all humans are self interested. What people call 'selflessness' is just mutual self interest, an enmeshing of the energies of one or more different self interested parties, hopefully to the gain of all involved.

I belive (it's my experience) that aspies find it hard to mesh in those systems, so become isolated and more self interested. Economically speaking, it makes no sense to give a lot for so little. It's that simple. I've always found it hard to get what I want in my interactions with others, and give the other party(s) what they want. So it rubs both ways.

I don't think of myself as selfish, I give a lot to others. I've learned over the years how to get more and give more. It's taken a lot of time and effort. The NTs are simply just wired with an understanding of the mutual exchange mechanisms, probably from birth.

I think people on the autism spectrum, it's not selfishness, but self-centered-ness. Selfish = seeing oneself as more important than others. Self-centered is looking at the world from your own perspective, and making choices based on that. Everyone is self-centered to some degree. But those with autism, more so.

Self-centered is not seeing the other's perspective. Selfish is seeing the other's perspective but not caring about it.

I think most people are pretty selfish. NTs are better actors though.

If you don't have much empathy though, I can see how you become very self centered (as in, not just putting your interests first, but not even realising that anyone else even has interests).

In a way, that's even more annoying for the other person, despite not being a deliberate mindset. Not even aknowledging that someone else has feelings is worse than deliberate meanness because you make them feel like they are not even a person to you.

Well, you didn't actually ask if she intended to stay home.

I have to second Mysty's comment.

My thought process is different to NTs in this respect - they seem to have a system where they automatically think about helping people in a certain why depending on the situation or whatever, but I just don't have that.

I won't even bother trying to explain this to my mum, she'll just tell me to stop being daft

Lene's comment got me thinking some more.

I think NT's are more likely than autistic people to be able to be selfish by not being self centered. That is, understand the others perspective, and use that such as to benefit oneself. Like, being manipulative. Using one's understanding of others perspectives for one's own gain. Which is something quite different from not seeing others perspectives.

Definitely ASD-type people will come off as being selfish, but I agree that it's more self-centred and general cluelessness than it is a willful disregard of other people. I rarely rarely think to ask someone if they want something from the kitchen if I'm going that way, because I just don't think to. (I also rarely expect someone else to get something for me if they're going that way.)

Once when my family was staying in a hotel for a week, I stopped sleeping because of all the snoring (they snore LOUD and CONSTANTLY). Finally on the last night, I started to freak out because I desperately needed sleep, was tossing and talking to myself and banging on my bed. My dad yelled at me, told me I was being selfish. It hadn't occurred to me that he would wake up, or that he was the one who was going to drive six hours the next morning. ...But I needed sleep!

By the by, I think NT people are pretty selfish too, with their constantly demanding your attention or presence or time, etc. etc. etc., when I for one would rather be left alone. : P

I agree with Lene quite a bit. Although one can make the argument that we see everything subjectively, that should not make us any more selfish than the next person. It just causes all experiences to be colored by our own perception.

NTs do cover their selfishness far better in the same way that they can do a better job of deception. We tend to be sometimes ridiculously truthful and so we are just as honest about our selfishness as anything else. But we are also more honest about our selflessness, meaning that we don't tend to expect a public pat on the back for it.

Personal example: A few years ago I won a drawing at a company event. The first prize was a really great camcorder. I already had one and I thought it would be wrong for me to accept it, even if I could have sold it. I just did not go up to claim it and they drew again. I figured someone else could have it who really wanted it. That's certainly not selfishness.

I think autism is just responsible for my getting frustrated when my needs don't get met right away and to sometimes forget to express appreciation.

It upsets me how selfish I can be, without meaning to. I like to give, and it generally makes me happier to please someone else, than to please myself (such as choosing a restaurant or activity of any kind). However, I often find myself doing something that's inconsiderate, or selfish. Often I haven't a clue it's that way, until someone's feelings are hurt.

I hate that, and I vow to work on it.

Charles

With autism it's more a passive type of selfishness, self-absorbed is probably a better word for it. In general we're more inwardly focused than NTs, so we tend not to spontaneously think about what we can do for others. That gets us into trouble in situations where spontaneous niceties and favors are expected.

This!

I'm not selfish, I'm in my own world.

I care about others, but I am very self absorbed.

As an NT, I would have to admit to being self-absorbed as well--the difference is I know how not to admit it.