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donnie_darko
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27 May 2010, 12:02 pm

Something that's bothered me for basically my whole life, is that fact that most people, I'm gonna say sixty-five percent of the population, feels that revenge is good/justified/needed, at least when it comes to big things.

I don't see how it makes the world a better place if you put a murderer to death, or if you jail someone for life just so they suffer. I'm not saying we should just let all the crazy killers out of course, but in the movies, the good guys usually have mercy on the villains, but in real life, most people, even most really nice people, would be even more brutal to them than the criminal was originally.

It just disturbs me that good people, even people in my family I love, believe that some people should die or go to Hell or whatever.

It also disturbs me when people say "i don't like it when INNOCENT people get hurt" or "they didn't DESERVE to die" because it's like saying, if they were a bad person, they would have had it coming. Maybe I'm just thinking about it too much.



skonamis
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27 May 2010, 1:02 pm

Quote:
"i don't like it when INNOCENT people get hurt" or "they didn't DESERVE to die"

These sentences truly are disturbing 8O

I also think that revenge is wrong. It's like fighting fire with fire
and doesn't make things better but rather worse. Why need more
destruction than there already is? I feel grateful for what i've been
through. I like learning from experience be it good or bad. Revenge
is baaad.. and unhealthy :cry:

Maybe this is why there are wars. There is definitely some hate, revenge or greediness involved.

I myself am a peace&quiet person. I do get angry when i am afraid but i cool down quickly.

I think living with deep anger is like being poisoned. It eats you from the inside and might become a revenge.



jc6chan
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27 May 2010, 1:05 pm

I think its a good thing you don't understand revenge.



ursaminor
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27 May 2010, 1:05 pm

It makes sense, in a social way.
People are wired this way to somehow weed out people that cause chaos.
But I hate how people are arrogant enough to assume they are wise enough to be able to decide such a thing.



donnie_darko
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27 May 2010, 1:07 pm

ursaminor wrote:
It makes sense, in a social way.
People are wired this way to somehow weed out people that cause chaos.
But I hate how people are arrogant enough to assume they are wise enough to be able to decide such a thing.


I agree it's probably natural. Animals get angry but aren't vengeful because they don't have the same kind of memory we do (not that they don't have long-term memory of course they just don't hold grudges for the most part).

I wish we would overcome it though.



DandelionFireworks
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27 May 2010, 2:22 pm

There's actually a good reason for it in so-called "Cultures of Honor." The idea is that if you can't count on anyone to protect you, and if prevention is inadequate, then you need something else. So if there are a thousand people in your town, if 4% are sociopaths and can't be swayed by moral arguments, you've got 40 enemies right there who are only held in check by not wanting to stand out. Add to that the NTs who feel justified, the Aspies who just don't realize, etc., etc.

So now one of your many potential enemies steals your cow. If you let him get away with that, someone else might think... "Oh, wow, this guy doesn't protect his cattle and there's no consequence for stealing them." You don't want them thinking that, because it leads to stealing more cattle.

If instead you kill him, others will think twice. You're less likely to face the same crime in the future.

Similar behavior is seen in bats. They generally share food when they find a big meal. If a bat doesn't share, then the next time, no one shares with him. This is because if you weed out the "cheater" genes, the population you're left with will continue to share food. (Otherwise, sharers would become a disadvantaged minority and the whole population would be weakened.)

It's still wrong, but now you understand the reason. It's to prevent future bad behavior.



Spazzergasm
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27 May 2010, 2:51 pm

I get revengeful feelings in the heat of the moment. But it never lasts very long, and I don't act on it.
I also think those things, like death row, and wrong. I mean, you're taking someone's life. It's not your place. I'm a Christian, and I'll be blunt. I believe if that person is not a Christian, they are going to hell, or at least someplace painful for a while. Not sure yet if it's for eternity. And It's still dreadful from an atheist perspective. You're wiping them out, forever. They are gone. How sick can someone be to do that to someone?
I understand the reasons. But they are the easy way. Not the right way.



bee33
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27 May 2010, 2:52 pm

ursaminor wrote:
But I hate how people are arrogant enough to assume they are wise enough to be able to decide such a thing.
Yes, I agree. That's why I am opposed to the death penalty and I have serious misgivings about the criminal justice system as a whole.

Though in my personal life I harbor fantasies of revenge... :D But I would prefer to be understood and that people would acknowledged their wrongs and make amends, rather than take revenge. Either way, none of it ever comes to pass. There are no apologies, no acknowledgment, of wrongdoing, and I am left to stew.



donnie_darko
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27 May 2010, 3:04 pm

Spazzergasm wrote:
I get revengeful feelings in the heat of the moment. But it never lasts very long, and I don't act on it.
I also think those things, like death row, and wrong. I mean, you're taking someone's life. It's not your place. I'm a Christian, and I'll be blunt. I believe if that person is not a Christian, they are going to hell, or at least someplace painful for a while. Not sure yet if it's for eternity. And It's still dreadful from an atheist perspective. You're wiping them out, forever. They are gone. How sick can someone be to do that to someone?
I understand the reasons. But they are the easy way. Not the right way.


I am struggling with this myself. I want to be a Christian, and as of now, I consider myself a Christian, though my beliefs are very non-mainstream, but I struggle with Hell. Even Adolf Hitler doesn't deserve hell imo. Even SATAN doesn't, though I guess if he exists he likes it there, lol. But most Christians will tell me Hell is a belief you have to have to be a Christian. I tend to believe people who don't believe or are wicked re-incarnate until they get it right.



Spazzergasm
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27 May 2010, 3:17 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Spazzergasm wrote:
I get revengeful feelings in the heat of the moment. But it never lasts very long, and I don't act on it.
I also think those things, like death row, and wrong. I mean, you're taking someone's life. It's not your place. I'm a Christian, and I'll be blunt. I believe if that person is not a Christian, they are going to hell, or at least someplace painful for a while. Not sure yet if it's for eternity. And It's still dreadful from an atheist perspective. You're wiping them out, forever. They are gone. How sick can someone be to do that to someone?
I understand the reasons. But they are the easy way. Not the right way.


I am struggling with this myself. I want to be a Christian, and as of now, I consider myself a Christian, though my beliefs are very non-mainstream, but I struggle with Hell. Even Adolf Hitler doesn't deserve hell imo. Even SATAN doesn't, though I guess if he exists he likes it there, lol. But most Christians will tell me Hell is a belief you have to have to be a Christian. I tend to believe people who don't believe or are wicked re-incarnate until they get it right.


Oh, I feel better I'm not alone. I am a Christian, but yeah, I have a very hard time with hell. I've heard some Christian beliefs that hell's eternity refers to it, and not the suffering in it, and I'm so unsure. I believe in it, but I don't know if I can believe sinners will individually suffer for eternity. People's explanation of "well, God gave them chances" doesn't cut it :/.



ruveyn
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27 May 2010, 3:20 pm

My father of Blessed Memory taught me this: Don't get mad. Get Even.

ruveyn



Spazzergasm
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27 May 2010, 3:31 pm

ruveyn wrote:
My father of Blessed Memory taught me this: Don't get mad. Get Even.

ruveyn


I disagree with it. :P



CockneyRebel
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27 May 2010, 3:39 pm

I don't understand revenge, either.


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LostAlien
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27 May 2010, 3:58 pm

Spazzergasm wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Spazzergasm wrote:
I get revengeful feelings in the heat of the moment. But it never lasts very long, and I don't act on it.
I also think those things, like death row, and wrong. I mean, you're taking someone's life. It's not your place. I'm a Christian, and I'll be blunt. I believe if that person is not a Christian, they are going to hell, or at least someplace painful for a while. Not sure yet if it's for eternity. And It's still dreadful from an atheist perspective. You're wiping them out, forever. They are gone. How sick can someone be to do that to someone?
I understand the reasons. But they are the easy way. Not the right way.


I am struggling with this myself. I want to be a Christian, and as of now, I consider myself a Christian, though my beliefs are very non-mainstream, but I struggle with Hell. Even Adolf Hitler doesn't deserve hell imo. Even SATAN doesn't, though I guess if he exists he likes it there, lol. But most Christians will tell me Hell is a belief you have to have to be a Christian. I tend to believe people who don't believe or are wicked re-incarnate until they get it right.


Oh, I feel better I'm not alone. I am a Christian, but yeah, I have a very hard time with hell. I've heard some Christian beliefs that hell's eternity refers to it, and not the suffering in it, and I'm so unsure. I believe in it, but I don't know if I can believe sinners will individually suffer for eternity. People's explanation of "well, God gave them chances" doesn't cut it :/.

I believe if there is such a thing as hell, it's a place where people are shown the bad things they did from the viewpoint of the people they hurt. It could be a very painful experience.



druidsbird
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27 May 2010, 5:45 pm

ursaminor wrote:
It makes sense, in a social way.
People are wired this way to somehow weed out people that cause chaos.
But I hate how people are arrogant enough to assume they are wise enough to be able to decide such a thing.


This.


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Ferdinand
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27 May 2010, 5:46 pm

X is hurt by Y.
X hurts Y.
???
X feels better.

I seem to be missing something.


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