A "Theory of Mind" rant...

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... is what I was going to post, after reading the recent Scientific American article by Karen Schrock about the reseach that says Aspies are less likely to "attribute events in our lives to a higher power or supernatural force". In the article, she talks about AS and Autistic folks having an "impaired theory of mind".

That seemed utterly absurd to me - how could anyone claim that being on the spectrum means you don't understand that other people have their own thoughts, separate and different from your own? I was pretty pissed off, and ready to go on about it for a while. But I decided to see what WP folks had to say about ToM before posting.

I found this lovely thread about ToM: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postx115145-15-0.html

Now I get it. I still think the article over-generalizes and draws unwarranted conclusions, but I'm no longer pissed off.

Once again, WP to the rescue.

JSB

I read that thread, and there's something I don't understand:

Thanks for posting that link. I was a bit confused by the idea myself, but the OP's (for that thread) story about her MIL and SILs cleared it up. It reminded me of the time my neighbor came over and said something complementary about my garden and then added, "I wish I could garden, but I just can't." It took me an hour or so to figure out why she got annoyed and left when I offered to teach her. Then I got irritated with her for saying she wanted to learn when she really didn't. I guess I don't play these games very well, either.

I understand very well, that people have their own thoughts, and I don't push my thoughts on others. Another article to make us all look like we're mentally challenged.

I always thought ToM was having the understnading that people often think differently to you, which is why experiments like this never made sense to me:

Theory of Mind is the ability not just to understand other people's behavior, but to perceive that they have a consciousness and an internal life. There's a fine line between labeling behavior as "anger" or "sadness" and actually understanding that the person feels anger or sadness.

Also known as Theory of Consciousness, it's surprisingly nebulous and "know it when I see it."

Mine was slow to develop and I tend to forget it often, but I recently had a chance to see the difference between an actual ToC and a purely intellectual understanding that other people are intelligent, because, under stress, I lost it entirely. (Yeah, I got it back. Not that you'd know from how I act.)

A buggy ToC explains certain issues we tend to have, such as assuming identical knowledge.

As for why this would be related to supernatural beliefs, I haven't read the article, but I would assume that being wired to perceive "other" consciousness means being wired to perceive the presence of God, and if you believe in God (or other spirits or something), you're more likely to attribute events to him than if you don't believe in him.

At some Sacramento AS&etc website said to belong to the "Sac AS IS Parents & Caregivers group" - - 3 core deficits would be (a) Theory of Mind deficit (b) weak central coherence (c) executive dysfunction. Maybe the UC Davis MIND Institute is a 2 hr drive, but we hate going into urban areas. Another ToM thing not mentioned yet in this thread - - "... also means the person has difficulty in distinguishing whether someone's actions are intentional or accidental" - - & we would add this - - maybe the person has bad intentions towards us but there's no telling. Also nearby is a guru called Garcia Winner, who translates ToM into "Social Thinking" - - and others would say "social cognition." Part of the idea is how to effectively get what you want. One is ejected from the birth tube and already needs stuff. Very soon the baby figures out that there is a variety of exchange system in force. For example, to get a thing you gotta start bawling or looking very cute. But even on the 1st day, the baby gets taught that many other things are essential for one to have a full, meaningful, & happy life. We ALL have been NT brainwashed. Some say one must know who you are & what you want - - but maybe it is equally important to know who you aren't & what you don't need.

I believed I was normal after I went through my childhood where I knew I acted different. Then I was was just told I was strange by one girl. Then later on, an autistic told me I was the strangest person he ever met... seriously!

I even see it in videos of me, I don't act like other people, but I can't put my finger on it...

Anyway, I think I'm acting okay, but apparently I'm not, it's tough.