Asperger's in Forensic Settings

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http://www.iafmhs.org/files/Murrie.pdf


The case studies are rather disturbing, but at least the authors point
out that only a small minority of those with AS engage in anti-social
behaviors. At first glance, it seems like the individuals mentioned in the
case studies might also meet the Dx criteria for anti-social PD and/or sexual
disorders. According to the authors though, most people with AS who
engage in anti-social acts probably would not meet the Dx criteria for
anti-social personality disorder.

As most of you know, neither sexual disorders or anti-social PD are commonly associated with AS.


And now for a "duh" moment in which I will state something which seemed
obvious to me before reading this article and probably to most of you as
well.

That is...while the diagnostic features commonly associated
with AS do play a role in the anti-social behaviors exhibited
by a few with AS, the IDIOSYNCRATIC MANIFESTATIONS of
these features (and features not associated with AS at all) is
the determining factor.


This seems to be especially true when it comes to special interests
and obsessions. For example....you might find a few arsonists among
those with AS who have a special interest in fire.

Also...many individuals with AS who commit sex offenses probably
could be Dx-ed with sexual disorders which again, ARE NOT commonly
associated with AS. I would guess that many, if not all, individuals
with AS who engage in anti-social behaviors have a history of sexual,
and/or serious physical, abuse as well.






I personally know one person with AS who was found guilty of some
very serious sexual offenses. Still, there is no reason to believe that sex
crimes and other anti-social behaviors are disproportionately common
among those with AS.


Bottom line...an individual's neuropsychological profile and past experiences is the crux of the matter here. With the exception of certain sexual and personality disorders, the diagnostic labels mean nothing in terms of who is likely
to engage in anti-social behaviors and who is not.

Robert Napper, AKA "The Green Chain Rapist" has autism

An Interesting fact is that an old name for Aspergers Syndrome is 'Autistic Psychopathy'. and many people may decide that Autistic people are somewhat Psychopathic due to the lack of Empathy, However they are not Psychopathic since they care about other peoples feelings, even if they are unaware of them.

I probably should take everything I read on Wikipedia with a grain of salt,
but he was supposedly Dx-ed with paranoid schizophrenia as well.

Unsurprisingly....he was also supposedly assaulted by a family friend
at 12 and he personally witnessed his father physically abusing his
mother.

His life experiences probably had more to do with his crimes than both his
schizophrenia and AS.


We can all be glad that the term "autistic psychopathy" is no longer
in diagnostic service.


I personally believe that Jeffery Dahmer may have had AS, but i'm not
walking neuropsych evaluation either.

I think those Aspies who are sociopaths would be a small minority. I have always recognized that others had feelings just as a matter of fact, but I never knew that I was expected to respond to those feelings nor did I know what that response should be.

Rampage killer Martin Bryant may have had autism too, but I doubt he could
be Dx-ed with AS specifically since his IQ scores were consistently in the MR
(or borderline range at best) range.

Considering his overall behavior and functioning though...I suspect his intelligence
may have been significantly underestimated, as is often the case among people with
autism.

While I don't think he was a genius by any means.....I don't think he was
mentally ret*d either. I just think he was weak in the type of skills most
conventional IQ tests like WISC/WAIS measure. It would be interesting to
see his results on a Raven's Progressive Matrices.

I haven't heard anything about Byrant having any language/speech delays though
and such delays can be a major reason for poor performance on the Weschler,
Stanford-Binet and other common IQ tests.

Agreed....but it's important to keep in mind that not everyone who
engages in serious anti-social behavior is a defacto sociopath.

IOW....a person who meets the DX criteria for anti-social personality disorder.

I think many among the nazi leadership were great examples of this. I doubt
Hitler himself would've met the DX criteria for anti-social PD.

Though I wouldn't doubt it if some of lower figures on the nazi totem poll
(like Julius Streicher, Rudolph Hoess ((not HESS)) and Fritz Saukel) were
actual sociopaths.

I thought the article was very fair. However, it lends itself to being misused. I remember one lecture by an (apparently) expert in the condition who spent about 15 minutes of an hour-long speech talking about these cases as examples of 'autistic psychopathy'.

He didn't mention that he got all his cases from one paper that was specifically about crime and AS, so it appeared that he had just plucked them easily from all those nasty aspie criminals out there...

That was precisely my impression.

It was very fair and the authors seemed to go out of their way to curtail
the kind of "misuse" you're referring to.

I was a bit apprehensive about posting it at first. But I was confident
that most, if not all, on WP are astute enough to see that it is a fair
and objective article.

No doubt some ignorant and hysterical NT's would likely start associating sex
offenses (and/or anti-social behaviors in general) with AS after reading this
article though. That's the sad part of it of course, but what can you do with
such people?

If they're not associating benign new age spiritual beliefs with "devil worship", they're
associating AS with child molestation.

Considering a few of the posts i've read in the adult forum, it seems like even a
few ASPIES believe there's a positive correlation between sexually-based offenses
and AS.

The case studies were quite disturbing though


As much as I hate to say it....a few of the things these guys did were
actually a bit comical too.

Some of their antics, as deplorable as they were, are like something you'd
expect to see in a XXX-rated version of Benny Hill or something.

Considering nothing aside from his relatively low IQ scores, case study #1
( "AB") seems like a fairly atypical Aspie.

Then again...I really don't think an AS Dx is illegitimate
simply because someone's IQ scores are a bit less than
average.

And since average starts at 85.... AB's FSIQ score may very
well be in the average range. Based upon the info given in
his case study, that's hard to determine.

I think the article is more specific to forensic settings. You will find that there are AS sufferers in forensic situations who have committed some serious crimes.

Most of the time that AS is associated with sexual crime is when the accused is unable to understand that it not consenting and that the victim is unaware of needing to tell the accused specifically that it's unwelcome. Many cases like that exist.

AS sufferers do have a problem with unexpectedly brutal violence which is uncommon but it seems most with AS will face the issue at some point in their life. Even Hans Asperger mentioned it in his 1944 article -

"The blind rage sometimes seen ... no awareness of or consideration for consequences, pain, or damage, and no recognition of the supremacy of the opponent ..."

Asperger's 1944 article summarized
Paul Cooijmans
"intended to be an objective condensation of Asperger's observations"

Opinions are like as*holes, everyone has one.

Lots of this "science" that comes out trying to tie Autism/Aspergers to violent behaviour comes from the US, and from what i read on this forum i know what a f-ing lottery the diagnosis process is in your country.




Aspies who are sociopaths are not aspies. They are sociopaths. People who have severe autism can have zero empathy, but they are not sociopaths. Sociopaths are antisocial and do antisocial things, i wish people wouldnt be so sloppy in their diagnosis.

The thing is: EVERYONE can become a murderer or a violent criminal. If anyone would go against my family, i'd start sharpening my kitchen cuttlery - but normally i wouldn't hurt a spider. Ask any sane NT person and the overall response would be the same - you do not kill or (just) even threaten anyones family and go unpunished.

The bottom line is Sociopathic traits are not compatible with ASD - that kind of research is a load of crap. I've seen the same load of crap being spewed from salespeople in the personal protection business trying to portray aspies as stalkers and the reason for all evil in the world. Such f-heads should not be allowed to continue unloading their BS.

There is a separate diagnosis (ASPD) for a reason, and lots of those people who have antisocial personality disorder and have serious impulse control problems are behind bars, doing hard time.

ASD is a-social. Socio-/Psychopats are anti-social. Thats the distinct basic definition of the conditions. There is no middle ground, even DSM gets this right (check the criterias for the separate conditions - there are lightyears of space between them).

There are a number of journals that agree with you.

A recent article from:
Advances in psychiatric treatment (2010), vol. 16, 37–43 doi: 10.1192/apt.bp.107.005082
titled:Asperger syndrome and criminal behaviour
by: Kalpana Dein & Marc Woodbury-Smith
You can get a copy by sending in a "patient request" and citing the article.

.. pretty much says that to assess ASD offenders appropriately there needs to be an understanding of the potential for comorbidity of other mental issues.