"Articulate THIS!"

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I pour over the database of posts as a past-time, like when there's nothing else to do.

Ran across some threads/posts talking about how some Aspies have trouble articulating their thoughts. What I presume to be a gal, with a mermaid avatar, suggested this might be because our thoughts aren't words... so we have to translate them. Do NT's typically think in words, though?

Anyone into linguistics knows that language is limiting. French may sound sensual, but alas... it has its boundaries.

People will ask me to describe visually phenomenal sights; but there are some things so intricate that I won't even touch them with words.

So I'm never suggesting to go compulsive and start trying to describe everything around you in extreme sophistication as practice. You'd go mad.

Buuuut... I'd like us to share some ideas on how to better be articulative. Maybe you're looking to be the next J.K. Rowling, or maybe you just want to get past the "Good. Bad. Fork. Stab. Blue sky" drabble. Lol.

- D

Comments and requests made towards others followed by a disgusted,"...aaannnddd?" from the individuals you're trying to covey your message to? If so, prepare this simple take along for easier... *smack*

Nevermind, my idea would never work as it requires some of us carrying around diagrams, paper, writing utensils and possibly an interpretor.

I have picture in my head of what I want to say, but whenever I open my mouth or start typing my words are sometimes lost upon their intended target.

Even sitting here while typing I know what I want to say, but how to put it into words... I was here for quite some time thinking, typing, re-wording (is that a word?), retyping and now... post!




I better invest in an interpretor.

The "typical" consciousness is linguistic. Not in the sense that it's concepts are made up of words... but that it's words are referents for concepts. You'll have to delve into philosophy for it to be spelled out to you though. there exists neither the space in this forum (not the motivation for me) to explain it.

You'll have to look up temple grandin for an explanation for pattern based and image based consciousness because mine is definitely linguistic. I am sure google will give you a good idea.

As for being unable to "explain one's thoughts" I would suggest also pursuing philosophy. If you have a linguistic based conceptual mechanism your lack of expression of emotional content could most likely be ascribed to a lack of introspection.


That said, autistics apparently experience emotions slightly different from the NT populace. So you might be talking about something else completely. I know from the few NT's I know that practice introspection that I experience emotions quite differently. Especially in their intensity and duration.

Autism can be the epitome of introspection, so I'm don't think that's the root of the problem for Aspies.

For me, personally... my emotions are pretty much dead. I can feel. But it's so fleeting and contrived that there's nothing to really describe.

Aspies I've talked to are often quite the opposite. They tend to be very emotional.

At any rate, I'm not refering to just feelings, but anything in general that Aspies have a difficult time translating into words.

- D

My problem with articulating ideas is actually two problems.

1. When I try to explain something, I am always aware of all of the possible issues with my theory and with the choice of words, so I need to go on forever about the definition of the words I am using within the specific social context they are used in. I need to outline my theoretical position and find it very difficult to be satisfied with what I am saying.

2. Everything in the emotional realm is a complete mystery to me. I can be feeling a very intense emotion but when I try to define it or put it in words, my mind just goes blank. Even a question like 'What are you thinking?' is an extremely difficult thing to answer. I can have a million things on in my head, but the second I try to articulate it, it goes blank. I find that the only way I can communicate the emotional part of me is with my very understanding boyfriend. I need to be touching him for some reason but I can't look at him and then I just start talking in a stream-of-consciousness kind of words and sentences that don't make too much sense. He might ask a few questions and then he explains to me what he thinks is going on with me. I usually can't relate to what he's saying, but I still make a bit of a mental note that what I am feeling is defined by him as _______. I guess that teaches me more about the NT way to see things than anything about myself, but it helps us understand each other.

I was going to say what soso-lynn said about emotions above...but she hit the nail on the head, exactly. I can't believe that someone else in the world actually gets that idea of unnamable emotions...I try so hard to explain it to people and... :: throws hands up in disgust :: ...takes me about half an hour just to define ONE emotion in my head....often with multiple dashes...like sad-fearful-afraid-you're-thinking-x-because-I-said-y-and-you-thought-I-meant-x. sometimes I explain it like being a blind man at a busy bus terminal...where 100 busses come at once...and it takes me a long time to discern what emotional bus I'm on before I can decide if I'm on the wrong one...is that a good metaphor for it?

Oh, s**t and shinola, yeah, that's how I started to get very depressed. For years I had trouble articulating my thoughts. I eventually gave up trying to communicate. Why? Because having people think and say that they did not know what I thought was better than having them think I had some opinion or belief that I didn't because something I said sounded like something totally different. And I would sayt, "No, I didn't exlain that right." And the other person would go, "No, you explained it just fne." And I would say "I didn't mean that at all." "Wtf did you mean then? Why did you say that if you didn't mean it?" CRAP! Absolute hellish crap.

You have a PM waiting for you, Ana.

- D

i am 100% sure that im an aspie and my doc says i fall within the as/ocd/add spectrum (though she has yet to diagnose me with anything concrete im an nos gal) and I write.

and I think there must be plenty of writers out there and orators and such who are aspies. I saw an entire documentary about an autistic and though she was non verbal, with the help of a machine she did good speeches and she was a very good orator

however i gotta say talking out loud is a diff issue i s u c k suck at it

Because I live and work in a very mechanical and logical world, I don't have much need to explain emotions. Even when driving a school bus with 65 wigglers'n'gigglers behind me, I don't have to explain MY emotions. It does get a little tough when I have to interpret the emotions one of the kids is experiencing, however. Having lived 67 years without knowing about AS and 69 years without delving into the details of AS, I have developed coping skills which even I don't recognize as coping skills, any more.

However, I have to translate written words into spoken words. I also have to translate spoken words into written words, on occassion, as when typing up recorded minutes of a meeting. My brain just doesn't make the link between the two languages the way most people appear to.

Our written language is separate and distinct from our spoken language, and each is processed in a separate section of the brain. Most people can read Shakespeare and "hear" the beauty of the language as if it were spoken. The first time I heard some speak a Shakespearean sonnet, I was stunned at the difference between what I had been reading for years and what I was hearing.

Pops

I have a hard time with this!

I have two very similar issues to Soso-lynn:
- It's not so much the choice of words, but I am constantly reiterating what I say to try and get it down to meaning what I want it to mean. I know what my intention is, but because it isn't laid out neatly in sentences in my head, I have to amend repeatedly to get what I want out.
- I have a hard time defining emotions, too - for me, I can scale them on intensity (from mild to strong) and on whether it is a "positive" or "negative" emotion. But I don't necessarily know which positive or negative emotion.

Also, people want to know what I am thinking or my opinion on an issue, and I can't or don't answer:
- Very often, there are so many thoughts in my head at once that I can't choose a single one to answer the question, and in most cases I can't put into words the thoughts I have anyway, so it wouldn't matter if I could choose one. And many of the thoughts are linked so that I can't just give a simple answer even if I could think of one; they all need to be explained, or none.
- And if I do think I know what to say, which is rare, I'm hesitant to say it anyway because there is no way I can tell if it is the right thing to say at that time, to those people, and so on. Sometimes I don't hesitate and I end up wrong, so I get shy of it.

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http://www.cybernation.com/victory/quotations/

http://www.cybernation.com/victory/quot ... iting.html

http://www.cybernation.com/victory/quot ... aking.html

I do not know about other people but I think in words (I hear them), in pictures of words, letters and numbers (I see them) and pictures. This is mostly due to the fact that I have many levels of thoughts (and always wondered if I were the only one, when I was five I pictured my mind as a space ship with something which looked like huge test tubes in which there were faceless genderless people representing levels of thoughts, the inconscient ones being the hardest to "hear") and can switch my attention on one of these levels (and still be aware of the others).

I have read that visual thinking is common among Autistic people (60%) as well as dyslexics and apparently, in both cases, there are individuals who do not think in pictures but in words.

Still, it seems that visual thinking is predominant among the whole population (NT included).

I think that there are more than just one cause in this problem.

I am able to think in thoughts yet I do think that words are too subjectively linked with ones culture and convention to express properly what you really think, sometimes there are no words for it in my mind (which is why thinking on different levels is useful), this is also a problem poets have expressed more than once, it is almost "the poetic problem" : how to use conventional words to express you own individuality and emotions ?

(For example, last night, a friend of mine told me something which made me "happy" or "euphoric", there is no word to say what I experienced but I somehow saw my brain turning white, all of my thought had turned white, even those I could hear, every levels were white, there is no word to say this and this description is only visual, it does not tell what I felt.)

I guess that since Autistic people tend to have difficulties understanding social conventions, they tend to be also more aware of the conventional issue when it comes to words and they feel that words are not the better way to express themselves.
The fact is : we are forced to use unsufficient words, most people deal with it and some cannot.

I cannot deal with it, which is why I try to draw or use poetry... and then again, I never succeed in expressing my thoughts truly and I think no one can. It's a big problem for everyone, we are tied to conventions and what is inside us cannot go outside and still be the same. Communication is a problem, it will always be, no matter how objective your analysis (of your emotions, of yourself) can be.

(Last time, I was talking with a NT, and we were trying to find a word or a phrase to say something and failed. We tried with etymology, cononotation, what the words mean nowadays for people but failed because there are so many conventional and subjective things about words...
Just take a simple word : "fat". You can no longer say "I am fat" or "This person is fat." unless they are severely overweight because fat is no longer neutral, is is negatively connoted and people think it is insulting even when one is objectively fat.)



I think everyone perceive what they read subjectively.