How many girls are there on here with AS? And...

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applesauce
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11 May 2006, 8:52 am

How have you noticed your experiences differing from some of the guys?

I'm a girl (woman? dunno. Hate that word!) with AS and I've been told a few times that there can be differences in how it manifests. I'm fundamentally creative, which is supposed to be non-Aspie, but I read something which suggested girls with AS can be more creative than boys with AS.

I'd be interested to know if any other female Aspies (presuming there must be!) have any experiences to share on these kinds of things - I'm trying to get an accurate picture of the differences, if any!

Apple



adhocisadirtyword
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11 May 2006, 11:08 am

I've noticed such things as well. I actually find myself questioning my 'aspie'ness from time to time, mostly because I don't seem to be as extreme (for lack of a better word) as some of the stories I've heard about. But I'll be going for a dx soon, so we'll see.

I have friends (a few close ones who accept me for who I am), I paint and draw, I think I'm a good mom (not taking away anything from other aspie parents), I have a good career, and generally get by relatively well on a daily basis.

I've read that they believe women go underdiagnosed, because some of them do seem to have an easier time dealing with some of the harder parts of having AS. I wonder if, in a way, being female balances out the extreme male brain. I don't follow fashion or trends, but I wear clothes that look good on me. I don't like gossip or small talk, but I can have many a conversation that doesn't ultimately lead to one of my obsessions. Instead of tuning out on conference calls (I have a hard time following meetings), my creative side kicks in and I draw very detailed pictures in order to stay focused.

Also - I've never had difficulty with feeling empathy for someone else. There may be people that I believe don't deserve empathy - but for those who do, I feel it. I may not be able to tell when someone is back stabbing me, or I may be the last to get a joke, but I can always tell when someone isn't feeling quite well.

Any others?



alexa232
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11 May 2006, 11:49 am

I don't seem to have any problems with empathy either.
(although I often tend to force my opinions on others)
I can read body language most of the time, although I have problems with eye contact and facial expressions.
Irony comes relatively easy for me, howerver (although I am often told to be sarcastic myself) I often let sarcasm fly right past me.
I also seem to be rather crative, but I seem to handle analytical subjects far better. My creativity often kicks in when writing.
I seem to have the ability to create new words and phrases that contribute a lot to my text.
My special intrests have been more directed towards people than objects (although this has changed over the years.
I now have a passion for neuro-psychatry and music)
I am rather clumsy (drop stuff a lot, have a slight difficulty using cultry, show poor ball skills, poor running skills,
used to stumble and trip alot when I was a child and so on), although I play the drums. (hmm)



Shelob
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11 May 2006, 2:51 pm

Another female here. I feel I show my AS symptoms in a different way than most males. For example, my interest normally involve a particular person (actor, singer, artist...) rather than an "impersonal" subject, and I think I've got a more vivid imagination. But apart from that, I'm not so different from males with AS. :wink:



What-ever
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11 May 2006, 3:03 pm

adhocisadirtyword wrote:
...

I've read that they believe women go underdiagnosed, because some of them do seem to have an easier time dealing with some of the harder parts of having AS. I wonder if, in a way, being female balances out the extreme male brain. ...


Might be something to that. Could it also be that it's pretty much drilled into us from the time we can sit up how to behave as females? What you're expected to say, do, wear, how to act in a given situation. I remember that well as a child. Being drilled, along with my sister (NT) about how to sit, how to walk, what to wear, how to wear it. Both through overt and some more subtle messages from the people around us. How to be "pleasant" and what little clever little things to say at what time, and what absolutely not to say - although that was a different era then than now.

The messages were constant, when I was little. My brother could run rampant through the house, shouting and bouncing off the furniture because "well, that's how little boys are, you know." I'd have seen the belt and been sent to my room for the day if I jumped on the couch and ran through the house screaming that I was a dinosaur [or whatever]. (Come to think of it, I was, more than once, actually.)

I do think girls are reared differently than are boys in a lot of cultures, and that the differences in reinforcement may have outcomes that are in a lot of ways similar between Aspie females and NT females v Aspie/NT males.

Just a thought.



Hel
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11 May 2006, 3:32 pm

I think i am noticably weird because i don't talk much for a woman! not wishing to be sexist about it but people do find it strange that i don't talk much.
I feel emotions (my own and others') all too deeply at times. right now i am crying my eyes out because i don't know how to tell my parents about as.
I have never cared about clothes or fashion, hate clothes shopping.
Always felt more comfortable talking to boys than girls at school.
Rarely wear make up. It's a chore.



drummer_girl
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11 May 2006, 3:38 pm

im a female and for the most part on this forum i can relate to most of the things that people say about being an aspie.
i was only just recently diagnosed at 21
i do have alot of problems with empathy and puttin myself in somebody elses position, biut this has improved over the years... 2 examples of this is at work. ive made a really good friend now at work. im not sure but i think the woman i made friends with might be an aspie aswell- or at least she displays some of the characteristics similer to me.
she was telling me all about how her husband had hit her after gettin drunk... she came in crying. i only thought about what i should have done after she left. i stood there with my arms pinned by my side and said im not sure what to say really. but i know if som1 did that to me theyd be out of the door. after wards i thought i should maybe have hugged her. but im not great with psysical contact so i dont lnow whehter i should have or not.

another is of my colleague who lives away from home.. i offered to swap my shifts so he could have enough time to go home on his day off and appreciate it. i would never thought about this a year ago i would have just thought about myself first.


i do manage most of the time to keep my obsession out of conversation.. DRUMS. unless it is about playing them which i do talk about quite alot. but i dont tend to tell everybody that i kiss them and cuddle them.. just like some people. and people on this forum because they tend not to think im wierd!!

i can talk forever aswell andi get annoyed ifsomebody interrupts me
i cannot tell facial expressions much.. a couple i can do but none else. so i cannot tell if somebody is gettin bored with what i say. i just ask them to make it obvious if they are getting bored.
im not good with ball skills and telling distance. my co ordination has improved with my drumming but music is my forte along with art
i play several musical instuments and i enjoy painting and drawing

i have a very inventice and logical head. i can invent things out of other things asnd make things work better. im good with rotational and mirror symmetry - i can read upside down and i can write backwards, with letters all backwards aswell, as fast as i can write forwards.
alos can write with either hand

my mum says my personal hygiene is not up to scratch.
it used to be worse though. i could leave my hair several days without washing it and i didnt used to shave my armpits or legs - i still dont shave my legs but the hair is so fine and fair that i dont think i need to
my bedroom has never really stayed tidy.. i get asked to tiday my room 2 times a week but thing send up in th same palce they were,... i put my clothes onto a chair but sometimes they fall to the floor.
one thing i always did make sure i did is brush my teeth once a day which i still do. i rember my dentist showing me pictures of rotted teeth when i was little and those pictures have stayed in my head the whole time.

im also a walking telephone book
people need only to say a telephone number one time to me and i rmember it and who / company to which it belongs.. i dont even need to write them down they are all in my head. im 21 now and i still have telephone numbers of friends i used to have in 6th grade whom i havent seen since!- in my head!



adhocisadirtyword
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11 May 2006, 4:01 pm

What-ever wrote:
Could it also be that it's pretty much drilled into us from the time we can sit up how to behave as females? What you're expected to say, do, wear, how to act in a given situation. I remember that well as a child. Being drilled, along with my sister (NT) about how to sit, how to walk, what to wear, how to wear it. Both through overt and some more subtle messages from the people around us. How to be "pleasant" and what little clever little things to say at what time, and what absolutely not to say - although that was a different era then than now.


I think there is something there as well. If you're forced to conform in some way, most people will eventually conform to enough a degree to no longer face consequences. I was an only child, so I can't really compare how I was treated versus other siblings, but I do believe I tried to be more of a "girl" just because it was something my parents kept wanting for me.

My parents never thought there was anything wrong with me - they just thought I was a tomboy and extremely smart. They thought the other kids picked on me because I was too smart for them, rather then because I exhibited different types of behavior. Because of this, they expected that I should grow into a lady and kept pushing me toward that. Eventually I was bound to pick up some of the behavior. And being taught what to say and when really changes things for an Aspie, I believe... it may be harder for us to the social cues and to react to them, but if we can logically decode many social situations, we may be able to respond as trained.

I wonder if there is some type of study that can be done to determine, for those of us who do have slightly different behavior, if the way we act/react is due more to conditioning versus predisposition.



What-ever
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11 May 2006, 8:42 pm

adhocisadirtyword wrote:

I wonder if there is some type of study that can be done to determine, for those of us who do have slightly different behavior, if the way we act/react is due more to conditioning versus predisposition.




That would be interesting, wouldn't it. Wish someone would do it. :D

My parents knew I was different - it was obvious, from what I was later told by others, that I reacted and acted very differently from my siblings. They thought I was some sort of genius. I guess to someone who never got to high school that when their kid could recite the encyclopedia pages at age 5 it must have seemed that way.... I remember them saying they were worried because I didn't talk until late. But then they couldn't shut me up so they wished it was back the way it was. I went through a lot of years as "the family gifted kid" that was trotted out and quizzed at gatherings. Lots of "ooohs" and "ahhhhs" and "have a chocolate, kid"s. What-ever, the girl genius and the one who was going to be a rocket scientist and redeem them all. Until I hit adolescence, which seemed to last about 10 years longer than for most. Then I just didn't fit any of the ideas they had for who I should be. It wasn't pretty. :wink:



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11 May 2006, 8:55 pm

Aspies can be creative.

There are aspie musicians, poets, actors, visual artists, novelists as well as scientists, engineers, computer programmers, doctors. All these things are intensely creative activities.

(start completely unresearched theory)

I think the main difference is that little girls are taught a lot more rules about emotional communication and corrected more than boys if they're not getting it right.

It is more acceptable for boys to have temper tantrums than girls, and for boys to hit each other or their siblings - out of frustration. It is more acceptable for boys to set the rules and take the role of leader. And it is more acceptable for boys (or men) to be eccentric, insenstive, aloof, arrogant (this is usually perceived not actual), angry, agressive, intolerant etc. Aspie type professions tend to be male dominated too - it takes a strong woman to put up with all the s**t from all male co-workers (or just tune it out) and stick with it, and then your clients will still think that the junior bloke standing next to you is the expert not you. Sigh.

I think this is why I fell into feminism like a duck to water - what ever boys can be I wanted too.

I suspect there are just as many aspie women out there as aspie boys but they are harder to diagnose or are frequently misdiagnosed - or maybe a strong dose of testosterone and male strength - makes boys harder to handle - so parents more often seek help for boys.

It is also more acceptable for girls to be silent and withdrawn so parents may not investigate what is going on there. It is also more acceptable for girls to be depressed - so girls may get a partial diagnosis of depression - without the more complete diagnosis of aspergers. It is more acceptable for women to be miserable so long as they do their duty to their family. And I suspect little girls learn to fake the right emotions very early. You get a lot of women who fake being happy - not that this trick is limited to aspie women. I think that's why "desperate housewives" is so popular.

(end completely unresearched theory)



en_una_isla
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11 May 2006, 11:06 pm

What-ever wrote:
What-ever, the girl genius and the one who was going to be a rocket scientist and redeem them all. Until I hit adolescence, which seemed to last about 10 years longer than for most. Then I just didn't fit any of the ideas they had for who I should be. It wasn't pretty. :wink:


Yes, me too-- girl genius until everything went rapidly to hell around age 12. :(



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12 May 2006, 12:26 am

wobbegong wrote:
Aspies can be creative.

There are aspie musicians, poets, actors, visual artists, novelists as well as scientists, engineers, computer programmers, doctors. All these things are intensely creative activities.

(start completely unresearched theory)

I think the main difference is that little girls are taught a lot more rules about emotional communication and corrected more than boys if they're not getting it right.

It is more acceptable for boys to have temper tantrums than girls, and for boys to hit each other or their siblings - out of frustration. It is more acceptable for boys to set the rules and take the role of leader. And it is more acceptable for boys (or men) to be eccentric, insenstive, aloof, arrogant (this is usually perceived not actual), angry, agressive, intolerant etc. Aspie type professions tend to be male dominated too - it takes a strong woman to put up with all the s**t from all male co-workers (or just tune it out) and stick with it, and then your clients will still think that the junior bloke standing next to you is the expert not you. Sigh.

I think this is why I fell into feminism like a duck to water - what ever boys can be I wanted too.

I suspect there are just as many aspie women out there as aspie boys but they are harder to diagnose or are frequently misdiagnosed - or maybe a strong dose of testosterone and male strength - makes boys harder to handle - so parents more often seek help for boys.

It is also more acceptable for girls to be silent and withdrawn so parents may not investigate what is going on there. It is also more acceptable for girls to be depressed - so girls may get a partial diagnosis of depression - without the more complete diagnosis of aspergers. It is more acceptable for women to be miserable so long as they do their duty to their family. And I suspect little girls learn to fake the right emotions very early. You get a lot of women who fake being happy - not that this trick is limited to aspie women. I think that's why "desperate housewives" is so popular.

(end completely unresearched theory)


I'm also an Aspie female, recently diagnosed in my late 20's. Growing up, after seizures in my infancy, I had some delays, yet nobody knew about Asperger's until relatively recently. I almost didn't get the diagnosis as I don't have any unusual special interests, and I have no problems with empathy. In fact, I've been told all my life not to get too emotional, even when appropriate. I briefly had depression because I had to suck in my natural emotions so often. It was only after the depression went away because of treatment that I got my real diagnosis.

Because of my past as a tomboy, I've become active in martial arts, where chances are good that I'll go against a male oponent. This paticular sport is also male-dominated, and it takes strong women to play.


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12 May 2006, 1:12 am

I got an informal diagnosis after regular visits with a psychologist because I was depressed and I was procrastinating too much and I wanted to stop.

As for the empathy and emotional thing - I think Aspies are very empathatic and emotional. If I see someone else cry or get sick - I feel that too. And I am very easily upset myself, and I cry when I'm angry or frustrated (I think that's a hang over from girls not allowed to be angry).

What I get wrong, which I think is very aspie - is I offend people when I don't mean to and I've got no idea how I did it or why they are offended. Unless someone explains it to me. I usually do know that I have offended the person - unless I'm not paying attention to them and I'm distracted by something else. I'm most likely to offend people and not notice in the middle of a (perceived) crisis, when I will become a dictator and yell orders with no please or thank-yous... Some people call this offending-others-without-knowing-why "lack of empathy" or "emotional insensitivity". I mostly call it "social incompetence".

My male dominated hobbies include sailing - small solo dinghies, and scuba diving, and computer stuff (also my profession). My main sport is field hockey - which is evenly mixed between the sexes in Australia. It can be violent, you have to be tough to play. I'd have played Aussie Rules football if my school had this when I started. I also umpire hockey - definitely more boys than girls do that.



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12 May 2006, 2:47 am

Hiya, applesauce. :)

I'm 21, female and diagnosed, and I can't say for others but i'm quite high functioning, and have a crazy imagination. My creativity far outweighs my logic.

From my experience, what the person told you is true, although I can't speak for others.



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12 May 2006, 4:01 am

wobbegong wrote:
(start completely unresearched theory)
I think the main difference is that little girls are taught a lot more rules about emotional communication and corrected more than boys if they're not getting it right.
(end completely unresearched theory)

Whether it's familial rules, peer pressure or constant media messages, females are informed of expectations that differ from those directed at males. Females taught that they ought to behave nicely, and that what other people think does matter.


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12 May 2006, 5:09 am

en_una_isla wrote:
What-ever wrote:
What-ever, the girl genius and the one who was going to be a rocket scientist and redeem them all. Until I hit adolescence, which seemed to last about 10 years longer than for most. Then I just didn't fit any of the ideas they had for who I should be. It wasn't pretty. :wink:


Yes, me too-- girl genius until everything went rapidly to hell around age 12. :(


You can put my name on this list too; that's exactly what happened to me.

Around age 12, the world seemed to change in a way I didn't understand and I could not fit in. I didn't understand what was wrong with me and why I was teased. I was not interested in boys, fashion, or any other type of girly interest. I don't think the social skills I lacked could have been taught to me; they depend on a way of thinking that was unknown to me then.

I was never really taught how to behave as a female (as opposed to simply how to behave) and I never cared to be feminine in behavior. I have zero maternal instinct and find it difficult to empathize with others. I'm much happier finding a logical, action-oriented situation to a problem than trying to make someone feel better somehow. Although at this point I have learned the forumlaic words to be used when someone needs comforting, it rarely comes from my heart; the mental process is more like "ok, this person is displaying symptoms of distress - access Distressed Person Response Menu - Menu Accessed - Say: I'm so sorry is there anything I can do to help?"

Does anyone else think like this in emotional situations?