You're being rude!

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...but you don't think you have been. Welcome to the club!

On every single online screening questionnaire, as well as every single "official" evaluation form for ASD's I have seen so far, the following question appears:

"Other people frequently tell me that what I've said is impolite, even though I think it is polite." (Strongly agree, slightly agree, slightly disagree, strongly disagree)

I think we all know the most frequent answer given by individuals on the spectrum is "Strongly agree."

This aspect of ASD's alone, IMHO, is probably what is behind almost ALL of the toxicity that occurs on this site. We post things we feel are just our opinions, which we are entitled to, and are surprised when others find them offensive.

Thinking we were as polite as we could possibly have been, but being told we've been offensive often leads to defensiveness and an unfortunate cycle of unproductive attacks and counter attacks.

Too many of us come here thinking we've found the only place on the Internet where everyone will understand and identify with how we think, feel, and speak.

The fact is, not everyone will. The fact is, there are just as many on the spectrum that will think of us as rude as there are not on the spectrum, if not more.

Some here feel that rude or impolite statements shouldn't be tolerated here. I completely disagree. Being rude without realizing we are is far too common to the AS experience. If WP were to start chastising and banning users based only on whether they are deemed rude by other users, there wouldn't be very many of us left here.

Learning how to overcome being perceived as rude is part of learning to cope with AS. If WP were to just start kicking out every user perceived as rude, those users would be deprived of a valuable resource for learning how to overcome that trait.

Even those of us who have come to learn that we can often be rude without meaning to sometimes still slip up and come across as rude. Very few, if any of us, are exempt.

The trouble is when the rudeness becomes so common place, it seems impossible to ignore and/or avoid.

I've chosen to deal with it in my own way. I can't promise this will work for anyone else, but who knows?

I do not think that all rudeness should be ignored. How will anyone know they are being offensive if no one ever tells them they are? Of course, the chances of never being told you are rude here are about as likely as finding screen doors installed on the hull of submarine. I do think though, that I now prefer to keep my responses to rudeness to a minimum, and only when it's a matter I feel SO strongly about it needs to be addressed. Dangerous attitudes for example. I don't expect to reach everyone. I don't expect blanket agreement.

I'm choosing now to avoid responding to rudeness when it involves a topic I'm not one hundred percent convinced about, and/or is known for controversy and toxicity even if I am convinced.

I'm choosing to remain aware that, probably more often than not, the person being rude probably has no idea they are being rude. If I see that others have already pointed out the possibility that the OP may have caused offense, and it's done in a way that isn't accusatory, I might just post a "ditto" or nothing at all.

About the only thing I find offensive enough to refuse to return politeness for rudeness is judgmental posts. Judgmentalism is the one thing I find so highly offensive, I don't know how to respond to it nicely. For the most part, I'd rather just avoid it, but every now and then something just has to be said.

For the most part though, I choose to remember that when it comes to rudeness I see here, I'm am sometimes no better myself at perceiving that the way I choose to word things might be offensive to others.

I choose to remember my own answer to the question:

"Other people frequently tell me that what I've said is impolite, even though I think it is polite." (Strongly agree!)

If you are finding the toxicity level here is becoming uncomfortable, I would ask that you remember your own answer to the above question.

I think if enough of us remember that we may be just as prone to being rude without meaning to as anyone else here, the toxicity level here would drop like a rock.

I'm not perfect at this. Nobody here is. We just need to remember almost all of us here have the same problem. For every finger we point, there are three more pointing right back at ourselves.

Let it go.

EDIT: Much easier said than done, as you will see as this thread progresses. I did say that sometimes rudeness should be addressed. How ironic that this thread quickly became an example of exactly what I was talking about. At first I felt the thread was being derailed, but now I think it became a "case in point" of exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about (toxicity). I'll just let the thread speak for itself.

Last edited by MrXxx on 18 Sep 2010, 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't notice any toxicity here. There are just whiners.

A great way to be!



In my book: Whining = Toxicity

And: Whining back = Toxicity squared

The Zen master Hakuin was praised by his neighbors as one living a pure life.

A beautiful Japanese girl whose parents owned a food store lived near him. Suddenly, without any warning, her parents discovered she was with child.

This made her parents very angry. She would not confess who the man was, but after much harassment at last named Hakuin.

In great anger the parents went to the master. "Is that so?" was all he would say.

After the child was born it was brought to Hakuin. By this time he had lost his reputation, which did not trouble him, but he took very good care of the child. He obtained milk from his neighbors and everything else the little one needed.

A year later the girl-mother could stand it no longer. She told her parents the truth - that the real father of the child was a young man who worked in the fishmarket.

The mother and father of the girl at once went to Hakuin to ask his forgiveness, to apologize at length, and to get the child back again.

Hakuin was willing. In yielding the child, all he said was: "Is that so?"

Cool story!

"Make it so." ~ Jean-Luc Picard (Different concept, but I couldn't resist.)

Then it's kind of a moot point.

To you, probably. To many others here, it's not.

Irony upon irony.

I didn't know you were the spokesperson for WrongPlanet. Thank you for letting me know. I'll pay closer attention now.

Excellent observation! And hilarious on many levels. .

Point taken in more ways than one.

Who said I was? I certainly didn't.

You appear to be speaking for many when you say, "To you, probably. To many others here, it's not.", emphasis on 'To many others here, it's not.' That's why I thought maybe you are the spokesperson. Is that too confusing?

Meadow, as I said in the OP of this thread, sometimes rudeness is just plain rudeness. You are being just plain rude. Read the friggin' threads that have kept popping up all over WP recently. It doesn't take a statistician to see that this problem is concerning to quite a lot of users here. I brought it up because it concerns me too.

If you don't like what I have to say, or have some sort of problem with the way I speak, fine. Don't read my posts. If you keep making a habit of sniping at me for everything I say here, then you are just identifying yourself as part of the problem of toxicity.

Grow up and quit using your Autism as an excuse for being rude. This isn't the first thread you've been like this in, and it's not the first one you've targeted me personally in. Show some maturity.

Your behavior is beginning to show that you've taken this thread personally. Why is that, I wonder?

A quick perusing of your posts reveals why. You are part of the problem.

This comment notwithstanding... perhaps it's because I don't look in many of the threads, but I haven't noticed a whole lot of rudeness here on WP. I guess to me discussions on certain topics, like feminism or politics, don't strike me as rude, I just think many of the opinions offered are uninformed. Perhaps those who are being told they are uninformed may find the discussion rude, though.

There are viewpoints sometimes that I find rather shocking, but that too is not rude. It's not a personal attack against me. (But I do find it slightly disturbing to see someone silenced when they take objection to an offensive thread.)

I'm also confused by the assertion that being whiny is toxic. At worst, I consider it annoying.

I think that what I personally find difficult to accept, and hurtful, is snideness and underhanded manipulation, and I have not seen that here.

Agreed!



Something I myself, although unwittingly, may have been guilty of from time to time. I have tried like hell to cut back on that lately.



Understandable. Perhaps the next comment may help.



Annoying (to me) is toxic, but if we're talking about whining I think I'm a lot more open to being understanding when people aren't happy about something. It only annoys me when it is clear the poster is insistent that everyone should feel the same way they do, and begins to mock users who aren't unhappy with whatever it is they are talking about.



Well, you will either eventually stumble upon it, or you won't notice it at all. If it doesn't bother you, that's great. But if it is bothering others, and it's pretty plain that it is, that breeds toxicity. I suppose some of us can be immune to it, but it's not in everyone's nature here to be immune to it. I'm not always immune to it. Though I could easily choose to simply ignore it, and do quite frequently, I don't think ignoring it is always the best solution. Rude behavior runs rampant if it is never addressed. Those who are being rude, but may not realize it, never become aware of it if no one ever tells them.

Me included.

Yes, mocking other users is toxic, I agree.

Perhaps I'm just too naive to see it, and I don't think it's happened here where it was directed at me, but who knows, maybe it just sailed right over my head. I know that on another forum I used to be on, that was NT, I thought that a person who was trying to torment me was just joking, and I joked right back at her. It wasn't until she had had enough of my failing to engage her hatefulness that she really slammed me. and I was devastated because I had not seen it coming.

I agree with your basic premise, that people should sometimes be told -- nicely! -- when they have crossed the line.