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Who_Am_I
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17 Oct 2010, 7:53 pm

I can't be the only person for whom AS creates problems other than just "not being social" or "not being normal enough". Seriously, as marked as my social deficiencies are, they are about the easiest part of my disorder to deal with- I don't socialise much, and when I'm around people, I watch them and do as I do, and rely on memorised scripts, and I survive. My sensory issues, trouble with change and executive dysfunction cause many, many more issues.

These people who only have social problems: well, for a start, if your ONLY problems are social, you don't meet the diagnostic criteria for AS. So it seems like there are a lot of people here who either:
A. Have overcome their issues to the point of no longer being diagnosable.

B. Are in denial.

C. Lack insight.

D. Focus on the social issues so much that they don't even notice other issues.

E. Something that I haven't thought of.

I wish my only issues were social. Things would be so much easier and less painful/tiring.
Surely it's not just me...?


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buryuntime
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17 Oct 2010, 8:07 pm

It's not just you. I don't care that I'm a social dunce. I would much prefer to actually be able to function-- being comfortable; without sensory issues, being able to sleep normally, eat normally, go a day without repetitive pacing and movements, without executive dysfunction, being able to leave the house, dealing with change...

I'm really unhappy that because of these issues I can't do normal things like finish schooling. When people sum up Asperger's as impairment in social functioning I just don't understand how that could be someone's main problem with having Asperger's, and my social skills are very bad still.

To me Asperger's is more of a disorder than a difference. I wouldn't mind just being myself but the other issues that come with autism really cause me anguish. Take for instance that quote by Atwood I think that says other people are your problem, not Asperger's. It's just not as simple as that.



Who_Am_I
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17 Oct 2010, 8:11 pm

buryuntime wrote:
Take for instance that quote by Atwood I think that says other people are your problem, not Asperger's. It's just not as simple as that.


Exactly. The people surrounding me are, on the whole, very nice and tolerant. I'm still disabled.

Maybe the perception of disability has something to do with it: people see disability as something shameful (which it isn't), and tell themselves that they aren't really disabled, and that other people are just intolerant. This would have the effect of shifting the "wrong-ness" onto other people.


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17 Oct 2010, 8:27 pm

For me my biggest problem is my brain not being able to organise all the sensory information around me in a way that is normal. Part of this is to do with aS but also ADHD like traits too, and a brain chemistry problem I have which I think is unrelated to the AS, make it hard to focus.

but the social stuff has been a huge problem for me, and I didnt even think to use scripts until I was over 25. I have always been pretty social but I couldnt function with people my age socially, so I would spend a lot of time reading and with my interests. Granted, even if I had been accepted by others, I would probably have needed to rely on my interests a lot anyway, i need to take frequent breaks from people to feel myself..


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17 Oct 2010, 8:29 pm

My problems extend to more than being socially deficient. I have the other primary Asperger's symptoms of intense focus on certain subjects and poor motor skills. I also can't properly care for myself (such as having bathroom "accidents" and forgetting to shower/take medication), I get so absorbed in my fantasy world that I am completely oblivious to my surroundings and I have palilalia and dermatillomania (palilalia = tic involving repeating one's own words, dermatillomania = compulsive skin-picking).



PangeLingua
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17 Oct 2010, 8:37 pm

buryuntime wrote:
It's not just you. I don't care that I'm a social dunce. I would much prefer to actually be able to function-- being comfortable; without sensory issues, being able to sleep normally, eat normally, go a day without repetitive pacing and movements, without executive dysfunction, being able to leave the house, dealing with change...

I'm really unhappy that because of these issues I can't do normal things like finish schooling. When people sum up Asperger's as impairment in social functioning I just don't understand how that could be someone's main problem with having Asperger's, and my social skills are very bad still.

To me Asperger's is more of a disorder than a difference. I wouldn't mind just being myself but the other issues that come with autism really cause me anguish. Take for instance that quote by Atwood I think that says other people are your problem, not Asperger's. It's just not as simple as that.


I feel the same way. Actually one of the most annoying things for me is dyspraxia - I am always bumping into people and into things around my house and spilling drinks on myself (EVERY DAY) and I can't swim or ride a bike or keep a rhythm dancing, and I just feel and LOOK awkward all the time.

Incidentally, I recently listened to a thing where Donna Williams interviewed Tony Attwood, and he said that thing about other people being the problem, and she totally took him to task for it and started talking about all the things she struggled with that had nothing to do with other people.



buryuntime
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17 Oct 2010, 8:53 pm

PangeLingua wrote:
buryuntime wrote:
It's not just you. I don't care that I'm a social dunce. I would much prefer to actually be able to function-- being comfortable; without sensory issues, being able to sleep normally, eat normally, go a day without repetitive pacing and movements, without executive dysfunction, being able to leave the house, dealing with change...

I'm really unhappy that because of these issues I can't do normal things like finish schooling. When people sum up Asperger's as impairment in social functioning I just don't understand how that could be someone's main problem with having Asperger's, and my social skills are very bad still.

To me Asperger's is more of a disorder than a difference. I wouldn't mind just being myself but the other issues that come with autism really cause me anguish. Take for instance that quote by Atwood I think that says other people are your problem, not Asperger's. It's just not as simple as that.


I feel the same way. Actually one of the most annoying things for me is dyspraxia - I am always bumping into people and into things around my house and spilling drinks on myself (EVERY DAY) and I can't swim or ride a bike or keep a rhythm dancing, and I just feel and LOOK awkward all the time.

Incidentally, I recently listened to a thing where Donna Williams interviewed Tony Attwood, and he said that thing about other people being the problem, and she totally took him to task for it and started talking about all the things she struggled with that had nothing to do with other people.

I should really read something by Donna Williams, I have yet to.

Ditto with bumping into things, although I'm not dyspraxic. I would love not having to have bruises from bumping into door frames or go a day without dropping something. Sometimes when getting out of a chair I just fall back into it... and I could never put on shoes or anything with leg holes without having to lean against a wall.

Maybe some people wouldn't find these issues that bad from the sound of it but when you have so many on top of the social problems it's just hard sometimes. :( I hope more people respond to this thread...



DandelionFireworks
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17 Oct 2010, 9:14 pm

Of course it's not just social! I have awful executive function and some sensory issues. And I thought everyone here talked about special interests!


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Squirrelrat
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17 Oct 2010, 9:20 pm

My executive dysfunction is actually probably my biggest problem.



PangeLingua
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17 Oct 2010, 9:34 pm

buryuntime wrote:

Ditto with bumping into things, although I'm not dyspraxic. I would love not having to have bruises from bumping into door frames or go a day without dropping something. Sometimes when getting out of a chair I just fall back into it... and I could never put on shoes or anything with leg holes without having to lean against a wall.


I fall into chairs too, or I knock them over when I stand up, or I sit down and miss the chair. :roll:

I also think that not being able to tell when I am hungry or what emotions I am feeling is pretty troublesome.



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17 Oct 2010, 9:47 pm

You can technically be autistic with only social/communication problems. You'd have to be diagnosed PDD-NOS, but you could be.

People do seem to ignore what I think are the more significant aspects of autism in favor of the social/communication issues. Autistic people are anywhere from significantly to profoundly different, cognitively, from NTs; and those differences aren't even well-defined yet. They should be, if we're going to educate the next generation of autistics properly; but people are just constantly focusing on social stuff. (Granted, language is important. But since the cognitive differences are intrinsic to learning language, that doesn't make them any less important.)


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17 Oct 2010, 11:04 pm

buryuntime wrote:
Sometimes when getting out of a chair I just fall back into it... and I could never put on shoes or anything with leg holes without having to lean against a wall.


i sit down to get dressed and to put shoes on. otherwise i fall into something. anytime i have to stand still i'm going to lean against something or i get wobbly. (i don't have dyspraxia either, that i am aware of) and i smash terribly into door frames and hit my head all the time getting in and out of cars.

if i'm squatting, like trying to balance on my heels, i just fall over.

i actually find making my meaning clear (not in a social communication context, just in an ask a question / get an answer kind of way) and deciphering what other people mean to be almost a bigger issue than social ineptitude. i'm good at playing off misunderstandings with sarcasm so i don't too often feel i've made an idiot of myself socially (and care very little for being thought normal or well liked), i just don't understand anyone else at all, extending beyond their behavior to simple information exchange.

among other things. my skin drives me crazy even when i'm just sitting around by myself in comfortable clothes. there are lots of things i can't eat because of food intolerances. i have problems sleeping, organizing, remembering anything ... i like that attwood quote (i like the idea: from our perspective, you're the strange ones!) but i agree people are not the whole lot of it.


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17 Oct 2010, 11:16 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
These people who only have social problems: well, for a start, if your ONLY problems are social, you don't meet the diagnostic criteria for AS.


I'm curious how you come up with that.

Asperger's diagnotic criteria, DSM IV


Quote:
A.Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity


Social

Quote:
B.Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(1) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(2) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(3) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(4) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


Not social. But doesn't say that the person with these traits has to consider them a problem.

Quote:
C.The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.


Impairment can be in social areas only.

Quote:
D.There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years).

E.There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development
or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction), and curiosity about the environment
in childhood.

F.Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder
or Schizophrenia.


And the rest of this is saying what it's not so doesn't apply here.

And autism:

Quote:
(I) A total of six (or more) items from (A), (B), and (C), with at least two from (A), and one each from (B) and (C)

(A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity ( note: in the description, it gives the following as examples: not actively participating in simple social play or games, preferring solitary activities, or involving others in activities only as tools or "mechanical" aids )
(B) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:
1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)
2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others
3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language
4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level
(C) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


A: social
B: communication is social
C: Not social, but also doesn't have to be a problem, just has to be present.
Quote:
(II) Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:

(A) social interaction
(B) language as used in social communication
(C) symbolic or imaginative play


Only one is required, so it can be met by one of the two social ones.

Quote:
(III) The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder


Defining what it's not, so it doesn't apply here.

Yeah, more specific than having social problems. But no requirement of having problems that aren't social, although requires certain traits in addition to the specific socially related stuff.

I'm not certainly not saying that there's not more to autism than social difficulties. I'm not saying autistic people don't have other difficulties that are truly part of autism (rather than something separate). I'm just saying that the diagnostic criteria don't require any non-social problems. Which doesn't make the non-social problems many autistic people have any less real.


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PangeLingua
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17 Oct 2010, 11:28 pm

katzefrau wrote:

i sit down to get dressed and to put shoes on. otherwise i fall into something. anytime i have to stand still i'm going to lean against something or i get wobbly. (i don't have dyspraxia either, that i am aware of) and i smash terribly into door frames and hit my head all the time getting in and out of cars.

if i'm squatting, like trying to balance on my heels, i just fall over.


I just found a ridiculous article about dyspraxia that says that people with dyspraxia often have comorbids such as Sensory Processing Disorder, social problems including a tendency to interpret things literally, attention problems, and cognitive "shutdowns," but then the article hastily adds that these people are not "autistic" because they want to have social relationships. :? Whatever ...

Anyway, I've read that dyspraxia is extremely common on the autistic spectrum. Motor clumsiness is actually a required component in Gillberg's criteria ...



jeffbee
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18 Oct 2010, 12:53 am

I can't stand being touched by people. This is not often a problem, but sometimes my boss likes to put his hand on my shoulder and I practically fall down to get away from his hand.

I take everything literaly. This is a problem because alot of people ask a question by making a statement and I think they're accusing me of something.

I can't make myself do paperwork. This includes reports for work, filling out my timesheet to get paid, paying my bills, registering my car, etc.

Bright lights drive me crazy.

I have depression, anxiety, OCD, and ADD

I am always skeptical of "authority". This gets me into lots of trouble.

If it was just the social stuff, I think I could get by. Most people just think I'm a jerk. Though the inability to comprehend physical intemacy cost me my marriage.



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18 Oct 2010, 2:37 am

Squirrelrat wrote:
My executive dysfunction is actually probably my biggest problem.


i just read the definition of that & it describes one of my largest problems as well :? .
i never knew what to call it before.


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