Excerpts From My Upcoming Book: Thoughts? Feedback?

Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 

anneurysm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,196
Location: la la land

07 Oct 2010, 1:56 pm

I've been writing bits and pieces of this book since high school. Originally, this was intended to be an autobiography of sorts, but realistically, no one is interested about a person with a given disorder ramble about their life when it has been done time and time agian. I decided to switch to a topical focus, but I had trouble getting my thoughts together.

It can be tough coming up with a coherent flow of ideas or any way to connect them when you have so much to say about many different ideas. It's been a struggle for me to arrange everything into a topic that a) I am compelled to write about and b) has not been covered before by anyone ether in the field of ASD or written about by an individual with it. After some reflection, I finally had an epiphany of sorts that led to me pursuing my book project, long since abandoned, once agian.

I will be writing about conceptions of normality from a social standpoint, specifically as it relates to ASD and touching upon developmental diasblities. As a person who has been in both positions of being "normal" and being "disabled", it will bring up the issues associated with these concepts and how it feels to be caught in between them. There will be plenty of examples from my life as wewll as those of the people I have assisted and/or befriended, as well as case studies. I'll touch a bit on my background, sure, but also how I've progressed and how I am now assisting others with their journeys. Is this reaching toward "normality" beneficial or even necessary? What issues do I and those around me face as our difficulties fade away?

I've narrowed the title down to either "shifting out, shifting in" or "the faded taint"...or both.

Below are some selected excerpts from what I've written so far. I've written endless pages of stuff (some written as far back as 2003) that I am planning on incorporating into this project, but I've chosen to showcase the ones that are the most relevant and will give you a sense of what i'm trying to get at. :)

Hope I don't bore any of you! ;)

***
"...I was diagnosed with something that I am hardly the poster child for today. And you would expect me to be, like every other person with this label who has written a book. In today's egocentric universe, every person and their dog are busy at work touting themselves through confessionals and manifestos. What I hope to present to you is neither of these things..."

"...Lately, we are becoming innundated with the image of the endearing nerd: where social skills are overlooked and intelligence is a prized asset. Popular shows such as the big bang theory come to mind...it's a step up in that we are changing our sense of what personal values we admire, but we do so at the expense of others expecting stereotypes in the real world. My biggest concern with the way AS is promoted has to do with people's expectation that for every so called disablity there is some phenomenal genius-like ability, be it with math, music, art, computer skills, interpreting animals or some other ability. The truth is, everyone has abilities, but most of them are not genius level or by any means superhuman. When one's talent or gift is deemed mediocre by others (not excelling in a given field) or by society (such as not having use or value and/or interfering with education or employment), there becomes a discontinuity between what we expect of the person through this stereotype and what the realities are for a typical individual on the spectrum. This is why we need to rethink the images of these disorders. Sure, stories of remarkable individuals like Temple Grandin can be inspiring, but if these notions of extreme gifts and talents are all we are faced with, we will end up having expectations of people with ASDs that are too high, For myself, I have made the concious choice to do away with this scale altogether, simply because I, as well as most humans, simply do not fit in its confines. What extraordinary skills or talents do I possess, anyway? I don't even have my BA yet. Any source of talent or gift died away once I took it upon myself to merge with the herd..."

"...Those who have self-awareness seem to have their diagnosis merged with their identities, wearing this badge of honour proudly wherever they go. It becomes a third limb that they pervasively use to support themselves. It is just another aspect of myself, like the fact that I am attracted to both genders or the fact that I abstain from eating animal flesh. And it certianly isn't the reason I would write a heart wrenching tear jerker about a long list of problem behaviours and how they were solved with some miracle pill..."

"...There is something that draws me to others on the spectrum though. Although I don't identify myself as being on it in a definite sense, I have gained a sense of connection from I view facets of my earlier self through these people, as I live vicariously through their experiences. I get the,. Traces of past compulsions, obsessions and behviours still linger about, as if they were scars from a past trauma. The strong attractions and impulses to interact with particular people. The single minded focus on a thought, theory or subject. The tendency to feel immense comfort in limiting yourself towards a single focus: for example, either looking or listening to someone, rather than doing both at once. It's all still there. whether people choose to believe I'm faking anything is their own decision, however, this evidence clearly suggests otherwise..."

"...Normality comes through establishing a delicate balance between a person's existing skill set, their existing motivations, and the influences of the people surrounding them. A girl with an encouraging family that promotes personal levels of success, even if they are at a different level from society's or their given paradigms of what success lookslike will obviously experience growth as an individual and will better adapt to society's challenges, whereas another girl will be sheltered and coddled all her life as her parents simply believe that she will always bea child and thus cannot give her any expectations. This still happens in the 21st century. How are we going to give a positive image of a disorder when the families who face it display such defeatist attitudes?..."

"The interesting thing about the notions of "cure" and "success" is that there appears to be a total breaking point where any sort of difference in the individual is eradicated. I hear too often the prototypical case study of the lamenting mother who wishes that her son would stop rocking immediately and gain a wife, family and job out of the blue."

"...People tend to forget that "normal" is such a hypothetical construct: there are no tests to prove that anyone has successfully transitioned or reached this state. If you've transitioned beyond that border from a place that is completely foreign to what "normal" looks like, internal conflicts are sure to arise. Spending time on both sides of the line has its share of issues. For instance, you learn to be so hypervigilant about every little detail and nuance that goes into a social interaction, simply becasue you have gotten the idea that you have to perfect it with no questions asked. Every smile, laugh and quip is impeccably timed, every posture is noticed, and every sense of affect is made appropriate. If you pick out a given person with an ASD and present them to me in a few social scenarios, I am fairly confident that I can pinpoint everything in their interactions that is inappropriate for the context of the situations. I have it levelled down to a science. I catch myself doing this every single time I encounter someone with an ASD.Am I proud of the fact that I can do this? Never. I feel ashamed that as someone who values people as individuals, I narrow them down to a set of clinically defined traits. Would I ever teach this to an individual who wanted to be cured of their "illness?""


_________________
Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term therapists - that I am an anxious and highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder.

My diagnoses - social anxiety disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.


KissOfMarmaladeSky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 532

07 Oct 2010, 4:22 pm

I like it! It's pretty interesting, telling your readers about AS realistically instead of just a little case study, and I love it's narrative, semi-autobiographal style.


I know, this review is short, but that's all I could really think of saying...



glider18
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,062
Location: USA

08 Oct 2010, 7:35 am

Good luck on your book Anneurysm, it sounds like a great idea. I am seriously working on an autobiography too. I am utilizing chapters designated to certain things like, "The Trouble with Sports," "Roller Coasters...My Special Intense Interest," etc.

I understand about trying a different approach due to the number of autobiographies on the market today. I am using some humor in my book. I am taking a lighter look back on my life in the text such as the joy of riding a roller coaster with the lapbar disengaged and trying to calculate the g-forces to determine if I will fall out---just before the main drop. And the time I finally nailed a line drive in baseball---straight to the pitcher's privates 8O . They are all true stories from my life that I am reconstructing in text to the best accuracy that I can---but keeping it a bit humorous. If I can find a publisher---great, but if not---I will still have written it and my family can enjoy it. I think it's important to have a journal of one's life to pass on to others interested (family, etc.).

I love writing, and I have three projects going at this time. Besides my autobiography, I have a Sci-Fi/Horror novel well under way, and a script started for a most unusual musical.


_________________
"My journey has just begun."


poppyfields
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 377

08 Oct 2010, 10:44 am

I reasonate particularly with the part on AS and the media, as on shows I feel AS-like characters are often seen only positively and no ones talks about the fact having AS can be a very lonely existence, no one talks about the fact in the real world people don't think you're cute because you have AS.



Kiseki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 May 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,604
Location: Osaka JP

08 Oct 2010, 2:56 pm

poppyfields wrote:
I reasonate particularly with the part on AS and the media, as on shows I feel AS-like characters are often seen only positively and no ones talks about the fact having AS can be a very lonely existence, no one talks about the fact in the real world people don't think you're cute because you have AS.


I am writing a book now with an Aspie girl main character. I think I've managed to make her both cute and irritating and show the lonely side of things as well.

To the OP, I realize you are writing an autobiography and don't take this the wrong way. But it reads a bit textbook-y. I think your audience would be able to connect more with you if you spoke about yourself in more personal terms. Like give really personal examples instead of explaining things. Show, don't tell.



anneurysm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,196
Location: la la land

08 Oct 2010, 4:35 pm

glider18 wrote:
Good luck on your book Anneurysm, it sounds like a great idea. I am seriously working on an autobiography too. I am utilizing chapters designated to certain things like, "The Trouble with Sports," "Roller Coasters...My Special Intense Interest," etc.

I understand about trying a different approach due to the number of autobiographies on the market today. I am using some humor in my book. I am taking a lighter look back on my life in the text such as the joy of riding a roller coaster with the lapbar disengaged and trying to calculate the g-forces to determine if I will fall out---just before the main drop. And the time I finally nailed a line drive in baseball---straight to the pitcher's privates 8O . They are all true stories from my life that I am reconstructing in text to the best accuracy that I can---but keeping it a bit humorous. If I can find a publisher---great, but if not---I will still have written it and my family can enjoy it. I think it's important to have a journal of one's life to pass on to others interested (family, etc.).

I love writing, and I have three projects going at this time. Besides my autobiography, I have a Sci-Fi/Horror novel well under way, and a script started for a most unusual musical.


Awesome ideas, glider18! It will be interesting to hear your humourous takes on the various subjects you cover...you should post some samples of your work to WP. :) Also, good for you for having the guts to take on numerous projects...it will prove that those with AS can indeed multitask :P


_________________
Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term therapists - that I am an anxious and highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder.

My diagnoses - social anxiety disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.


anneurysm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,196
Location: la la land

08 Oct 2010, 4:45 pm

Kiseki wrote:
poppyfields wrote:
I reasonate particularly with the part on AS and the media, as on shows I feel AS-like characters are often seen only positively and no ones talks about the fact having AS can be a very lonely existence, no one talks about the fact in the real world people don't think you're cute because you have AS.


I am writing a book now with an Aspie girl main character. I think I've managed to make her both cute and irritating and show the lonely side of things as well.

To the OP, I realize you are writing an autobiography and don't take this the wrong way. But it reads a bit textbook-y. I think your audience would be able to connect more with you if you spoke about yourself in more personal terms. Like give really personal examples instead of explaining things. Show, don't tell.


Thing is though...I'm not really writing an autobiography, but rather a work of nonfiction with a personal touch.

Autobiographies from people with AS have been done too many times, so I'm taking an entirely different approach. This will not only be about my experiences, but the experiences of the people with AS that I have served as mentor and friend to, and as well I will incorporate societal and cultural views on the subjects I will be discussing.

There will be tons of personal examples that I've already written extensively about, but the reason I chose not to include them in these excerpts is that I wanted to display the main points of what I'll be discussing first before any of these examples come into play. As well, I have not decided how to tie them into my main ideas yet. As I've said, this is a rough draft and a work in progress and things can always change.


_________________
Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term therapists - that I am an anxious and highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder.

My diagnoses - social anxiety disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.


MathGirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,522
Location: Ontario, Canada

09 Oct 2010, 12:16 am

Why did you remove it from Facebook? Just wondering. I remember you posting other notes on Facebook and removing them, as though you were ashamed of something you've put there.

Since it feels more appropriate to give more detailed feedback here on the forum, I shall do it, with my usual blunt criticism.

Quote:
I was diagnosed with something that I am hardly the poster child for today. And you would expect me to be, like every other person with this label who has written a book. In today's egocentric universe, every person and their dog are busy at work touting themselves through confessionals and manifestos.

I wonder if by saying "every person and their dog", you are implying anything here. By the dog part, I mean.

Quote:
What extraordinary skills or talents do I possess, anyway? I don't even have my BA yet. Any source of talent or gift died away once I took it upon myself to merge with the herd.
University education does not mean a thing. The dumbest people can get their degrees nowadays... I just find the BA thing somewhat out of place because of that. But the second part is true. Genius dies away once you learn new, unrelated skills to your ability. Memory can fade away when you subject yourself to too much external stimuli. If you do isolate yourself again, though, it's quite possible to recuperate that skill you once possessed, since your brain is still plastic regardless of age.

Quote:
Those who have self-awareness seem to have their diagnosis merged with their identities, wearing this badge of honour proudly wherever they go. It becomes a third limb that they pervasively use to support themselves. It is just another aspect of myself, like the fact that I am attracted to both genders or the fact that I abstain from eating animal flesh. And it certianly isn't the reason I would write a heart wrenching tear jerker about a long list of problem behaviours and how they were solved with some miracle pill.
After "support themselves", it seems to me that it's better to start off by saying "For me, however, it is just another aspect of myself" because it helps bring out the contrast between the first idea that you've stated about other people versus the second idea you've stated about yourself. I could respond to the first part with personal experiences, but I'll withhold.

Quote:
There is something that draws me to others on the spectrum though. Although I don't identify myself as being on it in a definite sense, I have gained a sense of connection from I view facets of my earlier self through these people, as I live vicariously through their experiences. I get the,. Traces of past compulsions, obsessions and behviours still linger about, as if they were scars from a past trauma. The strong attractions and impulses to interact with particular people. The single minded focus on a thought, theory or subject. The tendency to feel immense comfort in limiting yourself towards a single focus: for example, either looking or listening to someone, rather than doing both at once. It's all still there. whether people choose to believe I'm faking anything is their own decision, however, this evidence clearly suggests otherwise.
I'm still wondering, though, if you truly feel more comfortable around NTs or around autistic people. But that's to be answered later, I guess.

Quote:
Normality comes through establishing a delicate balance between a person's existing skill set, their existing motivations, and the influences of the people surrounding them. A girl with an encouraging family that promotes personal levels of success, even if they are at a different level from society's or their given paradigms of what success lookslike will obviously experience growth as an individual and will better adapt to society's challenges, whereas another girl will be sheltered and coddled all her life as her parents simply believe that she will always be a child and thus cannot give her any expectations. This still happens in the 21st century. How are we going to give a positive image of a disorder when the families who face it display such defeatist attitudes?
Sadly, a lot of people who are diagnosed with the disorder during their earlier years end up being helicopter parented, i.e. not given a chance to do anything independently, and I know many such examples. I think it is worth expanding upon this point, and also mentioning how these problems can be realistically dealt with. I still think about the possible solutions to this at times. Perhaps by giving more examples of capable AS individuals, you can help further illustrate your point.

Quote:
If you pick out a given person with an ASD and present them to me in a few social scenarios, I am fairly confident that I can pinpoint everything in their interactions that is inappropriate for the context of the situations. I have it levelled down to a science. I catch myself doing this every single time I encounter someone with an ASD.Am I proud of the fact that I can do this? Never. I feel ashamed that as someone who values people as individuals, I narrow them down to a set of clinically defined traits. Would I ever teach this to an individual who wanted to be cured of their "illness?"
Which really comes back to the question why people with ASDs find it necessary to fake smiling/laughing, body language, eye contact, and tone of voice. The answer is, well, because there is unfortunately a set of expectations that each individual faces in our society. These expectations are what I see to be defined as "normal" behaviour. While being an individual sounds nice in theory, it's not realistic for someone with ASD to be themselves all the time and to expect to make it in the world without relying on, as you've stated before, their diagnosis being their "third limb". So really, it's either you force yourself how to do the despised small talk and nonverbal stuff and pass as a bit eccentric at times at the cost of other things like anxiety, lessened memory, or inability to concentrate, or you remain yourself but do disclose sometimes when it becomes absolutely necessary.

I think you were right in your earlier post, and what has happened in your case is neuroplasticity. However, it seems like you were also emotionally wired from the very start. I really don't know of any other individual with ASD who could perfect their interpersonal interactions in the same way. What has happened in your case is a miracle, and I think it would be very interesting if you could do some more in-depth research into autism and the brain and propose a possible theory of how this might have occured.

Just some thoughts.


_________________
Leading a double life and loving it (but exhausted).

Likely ADHD instead of what I've been diagnosed with before.


danandlouie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Age: 78
Gender: Male
Posts: 796
Location: rainbow bridge

09 Oct 2010, 2:43 am

good luck with finding an agent and publisher. i have found that publishers trash any manuscript sent/delivered by the author. tried to get a response from a dozen agents, to no avail.

there are lots of ways to self publish. it is a huge market now. if you try to do this, know there are several of these groups that are simply frauds.

minimum quote i received was 3000 u.s. dollars for 100 books. soft cover. hard cover way more expensive.

good luck on your writing.



Kiseki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 May 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,604
Location: Osaka JP

09 Oct 2010, 4:00 am

anneurysm wrote:
Kiseki wrote:
poppyfields wrote:
I reasonate particularly with the part on AS and the media, as on shows I feel AS-like characters are often seen only positively and no ones talks about the fact having AS can be a very lonely existence, no one talks about the fact in the real world people don't think you're cute because you have AS.


I am writing a book now with an Aspie girl main character. I think I've managed to make her both cute and irritating and show the lonely side of things as well.

To the OP, I realize you are writing an autobiography and don't take this the wrong way. But it reads a bit textbook-y. I think your audience would be able to connect more with you if you spoke about yourself in more personal terms. Like give really personal examples instead of explaining things. Show, don't tell.


Thing is though...I'm not really writing an autobiography, but rather a work of nonfiction with a personal touch.

Autobiographies from people with AS have been done too many times, so I'm taking an entirely different approach. This will not only be about my experiences, but the experiences of the people with AS that I have served as mentor and friend to, and as well I will incorporate societal and cultural views on the subjects I will be discussing.

There will be tons of personal examples that I've already written extensively about, but the reason I chose not to include them in these excerpts is that I wanted to display the main points of what I'll be discussing first before any of these examples come into play. As well, I have not decided how to tie them into my main ideas yet. As I've said, this is a rough draft and a work in progress and things can always change.


Ok, I see! I misunderstood the purpose of your book. Well, good luck!



Kiseki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 May 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,604
Location: Osaka JP

09 Oct 2010, 4:03 am

danandlouie wrote:
good luck with finding an agent and publisher. i have found that publishers trash any manuscript sent/delivered by the author. tried to get a response from a dozen agents, to no avail.

there are lots of ways to self publish. it is a huge market now. if you try to do this, know there are several of these groups that are simply frauds.

minimum quote i received was 3000 u.s. dollars for 100 books. soft cover. hard cover way more expensive.

good luck on your writing.


My only true dream in life is to someday get a book published. I have tried too and it's well hard. You really have to have an agent. I sent to about 20. Half- standard "no thanks" reply. The other half gave me some good advice, basically said I was talented but there was no market for my kind of writing (!).

I'm gonna keep at it. I think Stephen King got rejected a crazy amount of times before finally getting an acceptance letter.



graywyvern
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Aug 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 666
Location: texas

12 Oct 2010, 9:14 am

what i've read of it here is well written (& i don't say that often) & insightful.
good work!

m.


_________________
"I have always found that Angels have the vanity
to speak of themselves as the only wise; this they
do with a confident insolence sprouting from systematic
reasoning." --William Blake


anneurysm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,196
Location: la la land

12 Oct 2010, 10:52 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Why did you remove it from Facebook? Just wondering. I remember you posting other notes on Facebook and removing them, as though you were ashamed of something you've put there. Since it feels more appropriate to give more detailed feedback here on the forum, I shall do it, with my usual blunt criticism.


I have two worlds: one that my friends and aquiantances know and my world of AS and autism pursuits, and I made the decision a little while ago to keep things separate. I would have left the note on facebook if everyone was as open-minded and understanding of those concepts as people like you and I are. Unfortunately, they are not...I transferred it to WP because a) people actually would know what I'm talking about and b) I would be more likely to get some feedback.

I may have taken previous notes off simply because I'm obsessed with how I come across to people...in particular, not seeming narcissistic and being pleasing towards other people. I love those stupid little quiz things that people sometimes fill out, but it's essentially going on and on about yourself. I used to do those all the time, but I stopped: no one wants to read those.

Quote:
I wonder if by saying "every person and their dog", you are implying anything here. By the dog part, I mean.


Not sure. It's just a phrase I tend to use a lot...one of exaggeration.

Quote:
University education does not mean a thing. The dumbest people can get their degrees nowadays... I just find the BA thing somewhat out of place because of that. But the second part is true. Genius dies away once you learn new, unrelated skills to your ability. Memory can fade away when you subject yourself to too much external stimuli. If you do isolate yourself again, though, it's quite possible to recuperate that skill you once possessed, since your brain is still plastic regardless of age.


I totally agree with this, it's just a shame that society doesn't. I tend to merge my personal definitions of "success" with what society wants from me: to get crazily high grades and to make something of myself. I know that I shouldn't be doing that though. You brought up a good point though, in that the reason I behave so NT was because I was fully focused on those skills, my talents have faded. I wrote a thread on this very subject in the past The question begs, even still: should I isolate myself to gain these talents back? This is one of the biggest things I miss about being fully autistic.

Quote:
After "support themselves", it seems to me that it's better to start off by saying "For me, however, it is just another aspect of myself" because it helps bring out the contrast between the first idea that you've stated about other people versus the second idea you've stated about yourself. I could respond to the first part with personal experiences, but I'll withhold.


I think so as well...of course, that is another discussion and another chapter altogether. :) Things are still being pieced together, and they will get explained in more detail as my ideas are being developed. Tell me about your personal experiences with this, though...I'll add it to my writing for some inspiration and perhaps a better way to explain this idea.

Quote:
I'm still wondering, though, if you truly feel more comfortable around NTs or around autistic people. But that's to be answered later, I guess.


This is a question I'm boggled with myself. No answers to this yet, but they will come with some time and soul-searching, as most of the answers to my questions come.

Quote:
Sadly, a lot of people who are diagnosed with the disorder during their earlier years end up being helicopter parented, i.e. not given a chance to do anything independently, and I know many such examples. I think it is worth expanding upon this point, and also mentioning how these problems can be realistically dealt with. I still think about the possible solutions to this at times. Perhaps by giving more examples of capable AS individuals, you can help further illustrate your point.


For sure, I'll be delving into this point in more depth. I'll be talking about Victoria extensively, the girl I currently mentor. Her parents are the most supportive ones I have ever seen, apart from my own. Before Victoria, I mentored another girl for a few years and her parents had such a defeatist attitude about her that it made me sick. I had to give up seeing her, although I was reluctant to do so. Maybe I'll go into depth about dos and don'ts in supporting a preteen/teen on the spectrum to gain independence. I'm not saying anyone's a good parent or a bad parent, but simple things can do wonders for the self esteem of both the parents and children involved.

Quote:
Which really comes back to the question why people with ASDs find it necessary to fake smiling/laughing, body language, eye contact, and tone of voice. The answer is, well, because there is unfortunately a set of expectations that each individual faces in our society. These expectations are what I see to be defined as "normal" behaviour. While being an individual sounds nice in theory, it's not realistic for someone with ASD to be themselves all the time and to expect to make it in the world without relying on, as you've stated before, their diagnosis being their "third limb". So really, it's either you force yourself how to do the despised small talk and nonverbal stuff and pass as a bit eccentric at times at the cost of other things like anxiety, lessened memory, or inability to concentrate, or you remain yourself but do disclose sometimes when it becomes absolutely necessary.

I think you were right in your earlier post, and what has happened in your case is neuroplasticity. However, it seems like you were also emotionally wired from the very start. I really don't know of any other individual with ASD who could perfect their interpersonal interactions in the same way. What has happened in your case is a miracle, and I think it would be very interesting if you could do some more in-depth research into autism and the brain and propose a possible theory of how this might have occured.

Just some thoughts.


Thank you so much for your thoughts: I think that you've shed some light onto another interesting piece of the issue: at what cost does fiiting in and becoming NT have? I forced myself to do the stupid small talk and have been playing the NT game at the expense of horrible anxiety, losing my gifts, becoming depressed for a huge period of my life, turning to horrible and unwise solutions to attempt to become AS again, and having obsessive thoughts to the degree where I have to constantly be on medication to stop them.

My AS may not affect me in the ways that it affects most people, but I still have to struggle with the issues that have come from me having it. It's like an AS-aftermath syndrome of sorts. It's not a miracle by any means. I've been in the hospital twice a few years ago and this year I've gotten alcohol poisoning a few times and dropped out of school because I've wanted to escape these inner conflicts. I'm still going, though, and I want people to see that having being "relieved" of this syndrome is both a gift and a curse. I can socialize, sure, but I really have to push myself and will get obsessed with social situations and conflicts. My sensory stuff is gone, but I've been doing drugs in order to get the addictive experiences back. My obsessive interests are gone, but I will still pursue some things out of the view of others...including some that could be potentially dangerous for me.

My main advice to parents and "curebies" who want their child normal and fixed is to be careful with what you wish for. Nothing goes away in a snap. This is the real world, there are no such things as magic wands and if you or your child push too far, they may end up with an identity crisis.

I'm glad though, that you have acknowledged the fact that yes, I was born and wired AS and that no amount of fakery will detract from the fact that that being AS was my primary mode of social and emotional operation for quite some time. I know that you've been doubting that I've been on the spectrum for some time, and to be completely honest, I'm not quite sure where I stand either. I want some kind of formal reassessment to give me some closure. But I know for a fact that I had very different ways of socialization, emotional regulation and sensory perception for most of my life which led to a diagnosis of AS while young. Most of my issues today are from either having difficulty transitioning from this world into the one of NTs, or a case of my id fighting to maintain an AS identity while my ego and superego (if you're familiar with freud) seek to erase it.


_________________
Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term therapists - that I am an anxious and highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder.

My diagnoses - social anxiety disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.


MathGirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,522
Location: Ontario, Canada

12 Oct 2010, 11:39 pm

anneurysm wrote:
My AS may not affect me in the ways that it affects most people, but I still have to struggle with the issues that have come from me having it. It's like an AS-aftermath syndrome of sorts. It's not a miracle by any means. I've been in the hospital twice a few years ago and this year I've gotten alcohol poisoning a few times and dropped out of school because I've wanted to escape these inner conflicts. I'm still going, though, and I want people to see that having being "relieved" of this syndrome is both a gift and a curse. I can socialize, sure, but I really have to push myself and will get obsessed with social situations and conflicts. My sensory stuff is gone, but I've been doing drugs in order to get the addictive experiences back. My obsessive interests are gone, but I will still pursue some things out of the view of others...including some that could be potentially dangerous for me.
It seems highly contradictory to me how you've put yourself through all this crap just to appear normal, yet you say that you aren't ashamed of being AS and that you value diversity. It really seems that you are putting yourself through a lot of suffering because of whatever you have. Yes, I believe that you were textbook AS as a child, but I find it completely baffling how you say that now, the experience is gone, and that you don't know whether you feel more comfortable with those on the spectrum or the NTs. I got the impression once that you feel more comfortable with NTs, which I found very, very surprising.

anneurysm wrote:
I'm glad though, that you have acknowledged the fact that yes, I was born and wired AS and that no amount of fakery will detract from the fact that that being AS was my primary mode of social and emotional operation for quite some time. I know that you've been doubting that I've been on the spectrum for some time, and to be completely honest, I'm not quite sure where I stand either. I want some kind of formal reassessment to give me some closure. But I know for a fact that I had very different ways of socialization, emotional regulation and sensory perception for most of my life which led to a diagnosis of AS while young. Most of my issues today are from either having difficulty transitioning from this world into the one of NTs, or a case of my id fighting to maintain an AS identity while my ego and superego (if you're familiar with freud) seek to erase it.
All I can say is... if you were to quit all the mind-altering substances and all the dangerous things you do to get that experience back, will you become someone with AS again? If yes, then you still have AS. If, on the other hand, you find that even when you act in the most genuine, least anxiety-provoking way, then you don't have it anymore. Which sounds absurd as AS is not supposed to be curable... I personally know one man who is very autistic in his appearance and his issues are very AS-like (sensory, co-ordination problems, very stilted speech and manner of waking, just a general awkwardness about him that I haven't noticed in you) but he didn't get diagnosed because apparently he is too socially aware.

I'm pretty sure that if you were to ever show up at an autism service like Kerry's Place or Geneva Centre and expressed a desire to participate in their adult groups, they would probably dismiss you as not autistic, or would say that you're too "high-functioning" for their services, And I can't even imagine you being part of the developmental disabilities group I used to participate in. You'd just be seem way too out of place in that room. And Asperger's is considered to be a developmental disability...


_________________
Leading a double life and loving it (but exhausted).

Likely ADHD instead of what I've been diagnosed with before.


anneurysm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,196
Location: la la land

13 Oct 2010, 4:20 pm

Quote:
It seems highly contradictory to me how you've put yourself through all this crap just to appear normal, yet you say that you aren't ashamed of being AS and that you value diversity. It really seems that you are putting yourself through a lot of suffering because of whatever you have. Yes, I believe that you were textbook AS as a child, but I find it completely baffling how you say that now, the experience is gone, and that you don't know whether you feel more comfortable with those on the spectrum or the NTs. I got the impression once that you feel more comfortable with NTs, which I found very, very surprising.


The thing is, though, the valuing diversity thing is something I have very, very ,recently stood for. For the number of years when I was depressed, I did everything in my power to change myself because I was ashamed of who I was. And as I have told you before, it wouldn't be easy to simply snap out of it as most of the NT behviours I have learned are very ingrained into myself and my memory. I don't think the experience is *completely* gone though. According to my mom, who is the one person in my life who knows me best, I still have many traits that could suggest AS, like the fact that I'll get caught up with something easily and ruminate over it. As to which segement of people I feel more comfortable around, I used to feel completely at ease around people with developmental disablities. I do believe that if I had met someone with AS during this time that I would have acted the same around them: completely comfortable and utterly free.

They were my true peers, through and through, as they never judged my behaviours and saw me as interesting, playful and fun-loving. I'd also like to point out the fact that for the longest time in my life, I was completely uncomfortable with NTs. they would reach out to be in a number of ways, invite me to things and to hang out with them, but I simply couldn't trust them. I saw them as unpredicatble in their interactions and anxiety provoking. However, during the period which I trained myself I slowly began to get more comfortable with NTs and it was only about 3 or 4 years ago that I was able to trust them to the degree where I would allow them to be my friends. Even still, I don't feel completely comfortable around them, and any social contact now, for me, creates a great deal of anxiety. I may put on a very convincing front, but people don't see what I'm actually thinking or feeling. I don't wear a sign that says "I am acting smily and lovy but I'm nervous and scared s**tless".

I have a theory though of why I may be more comfortable around NTs. A huge part of myself didn't want to be, but essentially I felt that I was forced into it. Like a chameleon adapting to its surroundings, I slowly blended in with the rules and dichotomies that governed social interactions and normalities. I was taught that people were either "in" or 'out' but never both in or out at once. I was told that I was going to "grow up" and grow away from people with developmental disablities and that I "shouldn't stoop to their level because I was smarter and more capable than them" I was also told time and time again that being the way I was abnormal. I was told that I had to limit my interests and to get out there and make friends. If I was growing apart from the people with developmental delays and too unsocially skilled to trust NTs, where was I going to belong? So I decided to suck things up and learn the damn codes, albeit with depression, anxiety and obsession along the way.

This is why I promote individuality and want others to embrace their differences. I may not be the poster child of it myself, but I simply don't want anyone else going through the identity crisis that I went through. I want people to capitalize on their strengths instead of seeing themselves as weak and inferior. And I admire people like you who have already gone farther with this than I ever had the chance to. Be lucky that you were able to find outlets to embrace your identity. I never had the chance to, and as a result, I never did.


Quote:
All I can say is... if you were to quit all the mind-altering substances and all the dangerous things you do to get that experience back, will you become someone with AS again? If yes, then you still have AS. If, on the other hand, you find that even when you act in the most genuine, least anxiety-provoking way, then you don't have it anymore. Which sounds absurd as AS is not supposed to be curable... I personally know one man who is very autistic in his appearance and his issues are very AS-like (sensory, co-ordination problems, very stilted speech and manner of waking, just a general awkwardness about him that I haven't noticed in you) but he didn't get diagnosed because apparently he is too socially aware.

I'm pretty sure that if you were to ever show up at an autism service like Kerry's Place or Geneva Centre and expressed a desire to participate in their adult groups, they would probably dismiss you as not autistic, or would say that you're too "high-functioning" for their services, And I can't even imagine you being part of the developmental disabilities group I used to participate in. You'd just be seem way too out of place in that room. And Asperger's is considered to be a developmental disability...


This is exactly the reason I don't seek out services at Kerry's or Geneva...simply because I don't feel that they'd benefit me. Both organizations know me well though: they've seen me as a very awkward, painfully shy 16 year old when I was just starting out with my sessions to gain volunteer hours for school...so they saw me at a stage of my life where I would have qualified for those groups.

I don't support or endorse the belief that AS is curable, and I don't think I've been cured or fixed in any way. However, I've trained myself in an intellectual way to make things less harder for myself in some areas...and the reason I said some areas is because I still struggle with a lot of things.


_________________
Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term therapists - that I am an anxious and highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder.

My diagnoses - social anxiety disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.