Nonverbal: What's it like?

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I'm an Aspie, and one of the traits AS brings me is hyperlexia. I've used speech fluently since I was about a year old, and writing equally fluently since the age of four. I'll admit I mess up pronunciations and don't use a lot of inflection; but that's typical Aspie: I've got a great grasp of language, but any communication that isn't language leaves me stumped.

I'm not actually a verbal thinker, despite the focus on language; I think mostly in broad concepts, and translate to words, pictures, or numbers when I need to be specific.

But lately, I've been reading about the rest of the autism spectrum; and how many people with autism don't learn to speak until they're four or five, or even older; and some never learn at all. I can't imagine not being able to use language; and frankly, I'm curious as to what it's like. I've read Thinking in Pictures and other books by Dr. Grandin; that, actually, is what started me thinking about the matter, because she has HFA and uses specific pictures rather than words to process information.

What's it like not to use words?

Being non verbal and not being able to use words are different things.


Not being able to use words isn't most peoples problem on here. It's the apparantley complex structure of what people say, how they choose to say it, when they choose to insert it-in face to face conversation. Someone correct me if this is bogus.

I can communicate eloquently what I mean with both my son, and some rare ones I've met--but without that level of intimacy and trust- it's like I'm banned from speech-my speech anyways. I suspect this has something to do with that theroy of other minds thing. I have a theory of other minds. It's just different than the one it is named after.

I'm not very well informed about that aspect of the spectrum; so I'm trying to find out what I don't know. Whether I have enough knowledge to ask a proper question remains to be seen!

I suppose I'm mostly meaning to ask about what people remember from before they began to use language--obviously, they wouldn't be able to say it here, if they hadn't learned to use at least written language. I also want to know how people process information if they're not language-oriented (people who can use language, but it isn't their primary method of thought)... that sort of thing.

While I don't claim to be the expert on this particular facet of autism, I do have a theroy I've formed as to why.

Last year at school I had a professor, who, unbeknownst to me, had a daughter who was HFA. During the course of the semester, he picked up on the fact that I has AS since the way I sat in class reminded him of his daughter. Any who, he pulled me aside one day after class and asked me if I had AS. We ended up talking in his office for quite awhile.

"It's just so hard for her to speak" He told me at one point. It got me to thinking. I theroize that the non-verbal, fully well know what they want to say, there brain just won't allow them to actually speak it. Same thing happens to me alot. I think of something, but I can't think of words to use to express it.

Do you think I am on to something here?

That's a cute little guy in the photo

I think of something, but I can't think of words to use to express it in a language that the other person would understand, as feedback is always to the negative of being understood.

It only seems natural to find silence appealing.

I don't ever remember not speaking-I mean, I tried all the time. Could memorize and recite long complex speeches, and even now can write and perform one. Though I did boycott speech for a year one year.

But I am still learning how to explain what I experience to others.

I've read a lot of different writers who give varying reasons for their inability to speak (or inability to speak communicatively much of the time). Some combination of cognitive, motor, and perceptual (not that those things are necessarily separate to begin with).

I don't even know my own entirely, except to say that speech is like standing in a vast room with a target on one side of the wall, and having to hit it with a very long lever, while the lever rests on something very near you. So you end up putting all your strength into it, the entire world turns red, and you hit something, but it's not the target. And out goes the something into the world and people think it's meaningful. Or else nothing goes out at all. And meanwhile you're standing there too exhausted to move, too exhausted to think about anything, too exhausted to know what you're talking about anymore, and you haven't even produced what you were aiming at.

But that's not really a description of being "non-verbal," it's a description of how I experience the attempt to produce speech (or at times any language at all).

"Autism and the Myth of the Person Alone" is an anthology entirely of writing by autistic people who use typing rather than speech to communicate. It might be useful to you.

I'm not sure I experience speech as the biggest difference between me and other people. I tend to value more whether a person lives in word-world or not. I prefer not-word-world people, regardless of how much or little speech they have.

Ding. Ding. Ding.
Point. Point. Point.
Stomp. Stomp. Stomp.
Jump. Jump. Jump.

YES!! !! !!


What they said.

I can use speech, but I'm much more comfortable using typing than speech. There are times when I feel the same as anbuend, but to a lesser extent.

For me, it seems like there is a pipe between my brain and my mouth. I would have a strong mental image of a concept. The information would then rush from my brain to my mouth, through this pipe. However, only a certain amount of information can fit into the pipe at one time. I would be working frantically to convey this mental image to my listener, but because only a certain amount of information is filtering down the pipe, I either stand there for several moments looking foolishly silent, not being able to speak, or what comes out of my mouth is an embarassing garble.

Plus I have some minor speech issues which can mangle my pronouciations. I'm much better and this only happens occasionally now, although when I'm not concentrating I slur all over the place.

My husband didn't speak until he was 4 and he had difficulty understanding people until high school. He thinks in pictures and treats English/speech as a second language. He is a very eloquent speaker now and is highly read and is skilled at getting the point across, even more than most NTs. The problem is that it isn't natural to him and it's frustrating to live in a verbal world. He's a very talented artist, now. But at a young age he was criticized for his art choices and completely discouraged from expressing himself that way. So, now, in his late 30's he is learning to paint and draw. It's very relieving to him. He takes a long time to organize his thoughts and if it's an emotional topic, he may take days to express himself-sometimes he never says what's on his mind, he simply can't find the words for some feelings.
I guess that's what it is, a second language.

I'm totally verbal. I think in words and essays but I have a hard time organizing what I want to say out loud.

I can speak, but I rarely do. I wish I had never spoken, because now people know I have the ability to speak, it is expected of me that I must speak and learn to speak more. I can speak simple phrases like, "can you pass me the ketchup please," but I cannot explain feelings or anything complex with speech. I struggle with complex thoughts in writing, but I am far more verbal in writing that vocally.

With me, it depends on the situation. The more tolerant the people are of my verbal mistakes (immediate family, close friends), the better I feel speaking because then, I don't have to worry about folks thinking I'm dumb due to me saying the wrong thing or what I said didn't come out right. And with me, that happens a lot since there seems to be a profound disconnect between my brain and my mouth.

When I try to say something, the thoughts in my head go so fast it's hard to put words to them or my mind just goes completely blank when I try to join a conversation and I can't say a word. I can go from talking like I got a Ph.D one minute to acting like I'm special needs the next. Unfortunately, people who aren't so enlightened think I must be "ret*d" or "dumb" and treat me as such.

If I write down what I want to say, however, it just flows like water, one of the reasons I got my degree in print journalism rather than the higher-paying broadcast journalism. When some people who know me have read some of the stories I've written, they have the nerve to ask if I wrote them all by myself. Of course I wrote them all by myself! If I didn't, that would be plagierism, wouldn't it?

I feel your pain there.. I still remember the english class I took in high school where the teacher failed me because she wouldnt believe I wrote the stories I turned in.

She would actually grill me in a verbal debate asking questions about the story (which of course I couldnt answer in a way she could understand) so she took that as proof and gave me an F for the year.

Ive gotten better at verbal communication since I deal with users daily in my system admin job but I still occasionally get informed by my boss of complaints (fortunately for me he understands my situation). I still feel bad for my hubby though.. we met online and he misses talking to me in text but feels awkward doing so when we live together and are sitting right next to each other

quite the opposite for me, my english teacher was always amazed at how i can answer a question verbally in class but was unable to convey anything much on paper.

i have maybe a somewhat diff angle to put on it...

i never had delayed speech, actually; i was speaking and writing fairly early. i also remember when i was yong (soemtime before 10), reading dictionaries of different languages and learning the words.

i cant really comment on how i use english becuase i think it's so ingrained and ive lost the ability to really analyze how i process it.

but as for other languages... i can read most any romance language very well. i have some issues with russian and romanian i think due to the funny spellings they use and it takes me a moment to recognize words... cause even with reading, i have to hear it it being said, even if it is just in my head.

i can hear conversations and follow what people are saying in other languages without necessarily being able to translate it back to english.... and that's the real knack of it. i hear words in languages and i pull from it a feeling or notion of what's being said... like i can visualize a setting in english where i would use equivolent words... but i cannot make the clear connection into enlgish per se. it's like dreaming in another language; which i do often too. i can remember the words from my dreams and know what was meant by them, but not becuase i can translate them back to enligh... i just know them.

it's hard to explain... like if you gave me a multiple choice test on a conversation in another language... i would ace it... or if you just asked me to sum up the conversation i could definitley do that... but if you asked me to translate the words; i couldnt begin to do it... except when im reading and can see the words because it kind of reminds me from my dictionary days as akid. if it was a word i looked up and i come across it in a text, i can tell you the definition.

and forget about actually speaking in another language.... i can take in the info and know what is being said, but i cant even begin to find the words to actually speak.... the most i can manage in conversations in other languages are short replies or retorts... which ive actually fooled people from other countries into actually thinking that i was from somewhere else just becuase i knew what and when to say something in teh group conversation.

anyway maybe it's just me.

This is similar to me and when I was a high school I was near to bottom of the class with anything to do with languages such as English or foreign languages but better than most at science, math or puzzle solving skills. I was non verbal up till the age of 4 and even then I only spoke the barest minimum of words I could get away with until I was 12.
I still have lots of trouble thinking of what to say in a greeting card a quote on a chart at a wedding or anything like that and usually end up with something unimaginative like "happy birthday" or "have a nice marraige"

Paul

That's exactly like me. I 'perform' much better in text than verbally. I can write something down and sound quite intelligent, but if I try to talk someone through an idea instead, it comes out fragmented and confusing. I can really only produce coherent speech with the simplest kind of communications. Quite often, I'll actually write myself out a script beforehand if I have to make a phone call or speak to someone in person and am going to have to convey a lot of information.