Nonverbal cues in autistics-- a question

Post Reply New Topic

I'm really annoyed that there seem to be only two positions-- that everyone on the spectrum is identical, and that there are autistics and Aspies and those are two distinct groups.

Surely there are valid ways to divide the spectrum that AREN'T that particular very stupid way.

I'm diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. I realized some time ago that someone I know (who is diagnosed with autism) uses the same body language I do. I read her as easily as NTs read each other.

I know that body language is different from-- in fact, often the opposite of-- NT body language. I also think that, though I'm inclined to interpret all body language based on the paradigm I'm familiar with, I could probably tell the difference between someone using my style and someone using the NT style.

So I formed a theory that there was an "autistic" style of body language and an "NT" style of body language. Incorrect. http://www.youtube.com/user/silentmiaow?blend=2&ob=1 I was watching some of these videos when I realized her body language fits neither paradigm I'm familiar with. Neither.

So there are at least three different styles of body language in use by humans. (...Actually, it's possible one or more groups are not human.)

That's one way. Then there are differing styles of thought and differing skill sets and such.

Then there's my dad. It may be an act, but he definitely uses NT body language (with one exception that I would never have noticed had it not been pointed out to me; it's a little quirk that looks rude). On the other hand, I know for a fact that regardless of the style of body language used by someone he's talking to, he interprets other people's body language as NT, and moreover, does so based on a fixed set of rules rather than instinctively.

So now I'm wondering. It's very interesting if this is true in and of itself, but it would be even better if we found that body language is linked to something else. Is it?

And if so, what?

So how do we figure that out? Get samples of body language from all the members here, including the NTs? (Is it possible NT body language is also not just one thing?) We'd have a bit of a selection bias-- we'd be studying only those people who are:
1. At least some of the time able to communicate well enough to understand my post and explain anything we need explained
2. Willing to help
3. Members of WP, or friends or family of members

We'd also only be studying it under artificial conditions in that case.

Another thing we COULD do is have a series of voice chats between small numbers of members, say two at a time, and make the records of those discussions publicly available (people would then be trying to look more acceptable, though, and the situation is STILL artificial...) along with accounts from the people who were having the conversation of how they felt and what they meant and stuff.

Anyway, this is where I've got nothing. So, anyone else willing to offer some ideas or help? Surely a bunch of Aspies should be really good at this sort of stuff, right?

I'm still having difficulty understanding what neurotypical (NT) means. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like there's a continuum? I don't seem to fit either side. I have performance anxiety (SAD) so I guess by definition, I have a preoccupation with social concerns so I'm a NT. But I find it easy to be alone and often relish it. I tend to lie less than most people but I lie sometimes so I'm a NT. The problem is that sometimes, I have learned to lie due to being scolded by those around me. I'm still scolded when I don't lie, sometimes. I'm still unsure sometimes when it is okay to lie. This is very confusing but I'm looking forward to reading your list.

I would say there are lots of people 'on the spectrum', who either aren't funky enough to cut the grade of the elite club or aren't diagnosed yet, or slip into the old boys club of Scitzophenia. (That how AS used to get diagnosed!).

Also the notion of 'mild' doesn't really help, not 'high functioning' in a way.

I am by in no way mild, and some of the 'less milder types' seem to be extremely high functioning, to the point of meltdown.

As for disorder, well it seems to be more of a disorder than anything else.


I really think a bit of break point is the amount of synaesthesia that you have and the type of acute senses.

Development of childhood trauma, or not.

AS/Autism seems really to be people who treat other's as individuals, people with a knowledge of mind, not some kind of theory that they impose upon others.

This is both written into things like the Nuremberg Code, Good medical practice guidelines, and the law. (that you should treat people as individuals and not second guess them[e.g. not impose your THEORY of mind on them]).

As for what doe Joe think is in the box,
Well how the hell should I know, I'm not Joe, maybe he thinks we've been taken over by the aliens inhabiting this planet, people think and do all kind of weird s**t, and then call me weird!
I'll tell you what I know is in the box, since you seem to want some kind of answer, and any other kind is absolutely impossible for me to work out in a 'true of false' black or white, the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help the lies that others have told kind of way.

Better definition of Autism would be,
Diminished sense of self, lower Maya [illusion of self in eastern philosophy], in the third person, far to sane for everyone else to be able to deal with.

Autism basically equals sane.

neurotypical means a little bit mad up to the point of being a psychopath.

being a psychopath means you get to decide what everyone else is.

"But I find it easy to be alone and often relish it. I tend to lie less than most people but I lie sometimes so I'm a NT. The problem is that sometimes, I have learned to lie due to being scolded by those around me. I'm still scolded when I don't lie, sometimes. I'm still unsure sometimes when it is okay to lie. This is very confusing but I'm looking forward to reading your list."

Ah I call that 'BAD' parenting! putting the BAD into you.

lots of AS people are quite socialite. people in the Aspergers box for instance are more inclined to want to socialise but find that either their not so good at it, or that other people aren't really good at socilising with them[ their not included, and have difficulties getting included].

I'm very much an extrovert, [isn't anyone who talks about their topic of interest till their blue in the face an extrovert?]

I always was, but just had a social phobia.(mainly down to school issues [child hood trauma], but also down to more grown up gossip and crap issues)

I've got Hyperlexia, which mean that other people speak kind of funny like and don't know what words actually mean, and seem to use some made up version of the meaning so don't seem to be able to communicate with me. Though other can communicate perfectly fine.

As for disorder, well it seems to be more of a disorder than anything else.


should be Autistic people are more orderly and other people disorderly, and rabbits and trees and numbers and ohh pretty dog poo more orderly.

i wont be putting myself on cam , but i do the "eye shrug", if you have it on your AS body language list. as in rolling the eyes instead of lifting the shoulders.....

I dance like a baby.

I give odd amounts of change, to make the resulting change better.

so for 13 would give 10 and 4 x 2 to make 8 and 5 change.

or instead of giving 20p for 16p give 21p. (so get 5p change instead of 2x2p or whatever)

I help old ladies across the road or pick up things people have dropped for them.


I hardly ever phone friends and family, and they hardly ever phone me. [that's more literally none verbal]

I dress in strong dress colours (usually black), but not odd patterns on things, bold patterns are fine though as are very muted ones.

I don't look at things in a uaual way and will often walk away or start doing other things whilst talking to people.

Also I'll stand and wait until I'm acknowledged a lot of the time. (sometimes trying to but in if I've got something I want to say before it goes)

None of the things you mentioned here define you as NT nor AS (I mean you could be either or something else), everyone is different. In my opinion NT means (other then the scientific explanation) most usual and common behavior, body language, reactions, etc. But you can be NT with some AS traits, and vice versa.

Shadi

Okay, so reading the responses I've gotten, I can see that I need to clarify what I meant by nonverbal cues and body language: the way you move your body and the way you make your voice sound. Little stuff. Like, how you show happiness, how you show sadness.

But it would be truly FASCINATING if we could predict from this data how likely you are to help old ladies across the street.

So. Whatever way we go about it, we're looking for as many samples of natural body language as possible. Samples that were willingly given, but preferably samples from people who didn't know about the study at the time they were being filmed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfHxoUDBQ4w Like this-- willingly posted online, but posted without knowledge of such a study. Another way to go about it would be to film someone who didn't know they were being filmed, but to tell them the truth and ask for consent after filming but before posting. Ideally, the person in the clip would explain in their own words how they were feeling at the time.

" if we could predict from this data how likely you are to help old ladies across the street."

That is how I show happiness.

I am happy to help the old lady across the street if she is happy for me to.

and I think there in lies the problem.

If you mean, hitting walls, throwing things across the room, busting into tears, buying people drinks,pacing back and forwards, throwing up, not speaking to people, not opening letters, not leaving the house, and generally having meltdowns etc... well they happen so rarely that until I added them up and had a bit of post traumatic stress, I didn't know what emotions where, or indeed if or how ever expressed them. appart from realising that other people did bad stuff for some reason which appeared to be that they felt they could get more friends by competing with other people to win, not and not for the good of all.

I'd say one of the 'best' ways of telling is by the way the person looks. (well for olderish people).

Most of the AS people I know, 'fake' or imitate body language /expressions.

But I believe it's quite a know trait that Autistic spectrum people generally look a lot younger than they are, and I've noticed in a particular way, compared to the more 'psycho' crowed.

The psycho ground look younger in one way, but have more definition and surety about the way their face has sculpted and changed over time.
The Autistic crowed tend to look more 'child' like, with much softer definition.

I'll see if I can find some examples.

Bodies can speak?!

*wraps body up with gaffa tape* Ha, try to speak now.