Gender and the sciences - Inate or society

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Hi All,

I read and interesting article in Nature that claims that the dearth of women in Math, Science and Engineering is not due to innate gender difference but due to society, wilful and unconscious discrimination.

The Nature article

I think that the article makes an unstated equivalent claim that Aspies like my self, who experience difficulties in the social world, experience difficulty not because innate disability but because of discrimination by society in a similar manner that women experience in Math, Science etc.

I 25% agree with it...It is society and ability, but not only society.

I agree with you.

i may concur with the general outline argument as you have stated it, however i cant read it as the site is asking me to pay $18 for the priviledge.

I agree with your opinion, but I haven't been able to read the article - apparently you need a subscription to read it.

In this case would like to post the article to Wrongplanet, but I would be infringing copyright.

I founded and run a social group for Aspies at my university. It seems that the AS male to female ratio is about 2:1 in my university, and typically they are in science, maths areas etc.

I think the incidence of AS in women is greatly underestimated, its not 6 to 1 or 10 to 1 or what ever. Maybe 3 or 2 males to every 1 female. Outside of university the ratio is different, of all the non-university Aspies I met, about 30 to 40 were men and only 3 or 4 were female (not sure about AS diagnosis, sure about gender). I suspect under-diagnosis and misdiagnosis in women.

Anyway, if a person indicates an interest in science they demonstrate ability. If they cant progress from that point despite an ability to do so, that's discrimination. The only limiting factor for women in science should be the supply of females who are interested in science, and this is proportional to the women/men AS ration . . 2 to 3 to 1.

Totally agree!

I'm reading a couple books right now on this topic. It's really enlightening to read about how girls are shunted away and discouraged from pursuing science, math, computers. It's really sad.

There *are* differences in how the sexes deal with science, math, computers - but that's not a lack of interest, just a difference in how we interact with it, and until teachers and departments recognize different ways of expressing interest and using those skills, it's not going to get much better, I think.

For example, women tend to look through the computer to what can be done with it, while men tend to look at the computer as an end in itself. (tend - meaning, not universal, but statistically significant) Men into computers tend to study it in school and spend most of their waking hours on the computer whereas women studying computers tend to do other things outside studytime - and this difference is viewed by many teachers as the women being not as interested - even though they're getting similar grades and doing well in lessons.

Aspie differences are just as discounted and downplayed, I think. So yeah - we need to work to get society more aware of differences and accepting of them. In this, I think the combined efforts of feminism, and aspie awareness, and other diversity movements, are all useful.

The danger is that, those who vocally and angrily deny that there is any gender difference, could hamper educational programs that accept that there is cross-gender variation in the learning styles, interests and/or abilities. If it is accepted that there is no variation, then they will to force all people to attend identical educational systems. The result, both genders could lose out!

Read this BBC article about gender difference in science interests: BBC news article

Boys Interests:

• Biological and chemical weapons.
• Black holes and supernovae.
• How meteors, comets or asteroids cause disasters on earth.
• The possibility of life outside earth.
• How computers work.
• Effect of strong electric shocks and lightning on the body
• Dangerous animals.

Girls Interests:

• Why we dream and what it means.
• What we know about cancer and how to treat it.
• How to perform first-aid.
• How to exercise to keep fit.
• Sexually transmitted diseases and how to protect against them.
• Life and death and the human soul.
• Biological and human aspects of abortion.
• Eating disorders.
• How alcohol and tobacco might affect the body.

It is obvious that boys are interested in things but girls are interested in people.

And that doesn't mean that girls are less interested in science than boys, which is, unfortunately, how it's interpreted sometimes. Girls mention their interests and get steered toward sociology or 'soft-science' courses, rather than to the hard sciences.

The more open we are to diversity of interest in both boys and girls, the more likely we are to reach better solutions for all.