Personal Space and Proprioception

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So I have a thing about personal space, in that having someone near me - especially if they're near me and either moving or could move at any moment - is really frustrating.

I am not sure that misophonia is the best analogy, but when people are around me, my reactions range from 3-6 on the scale:

http://www.misophonia-uk.org/the-misoph ... scale.html

If someone stands near me at a store, or in the kitchen, or really anywhere, my response ranges from discomfort to an immediate need to just leave the area. I do get angry at them. This is one of the things that can push me to the point of overstimulation that I have to actually leave a store to recover. Lights, trying to find things (especially in an unfamiliar or rearranged store), temperature, and noise are already overstimulating, but people standing too close to me and what I'm trying to decide whether to buy can push me to the point of leaving, and if I don't leave I will probably lose it.

Now, I did notice in CostCo last month that when I was leaning on the cart and putting pressure on my forearms that this feeling was significantly reduced. I was less worried about people whipping around randomly or backing into me, and one thing I realized was that I had a better sense of my own location relative to people.

I always lean on shopping carts for the sense of pressure on my arms, but CostCo's carts are taller than most, and I had never used one before. I don't recall if I ever had this effect before. When I used to shop at CostCo in the 90s, I got steadily angrier until we got out of the store, and then once I got home I had to recover.

So what I wonder is:

* Does anyone else experience this?

* Is this problem with personal space potentially a proprioception issue?

* Would it work to find something I could wear (say on my wrists) that applied pressure to help alleviate this?

Some of it is social. If you're with a friend or family member who has some understanding of what you go through and can easily and comfortably help, knowing they are there can be a big help.

And I can see how that can help. And maybe at other times, putting your palm and some of your wrist fully on a counter or shelf might also help.

Ah, thanks. I hadn't thought of the social aspect. That's a good point.

My experience was, the last time I was out with someone and told them about my problems with this, she kept invading my personal space and drove me out of the store twice. But this person is extremely self-centered, doesn't really pay attention to things that don't directly involve her, and seemed quick to ask me to function in ways that can make me stop functioning, despite being told that I had difficulty doing these things.

I think it'd be less of a problem with most people I know.

Yes, she does sound rather self-centered. As well as a not very good listener. I mean, Wow, people talk about us on the spectrum not being very good listeners, or so turned inward that we don't pick up what is palpably obvious right in front of us . . . well, this is obviously a human failing a variety of people can have for a variety of reasons!

Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 02 Feb 2011, 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

One thing that was hell on me for years was that due to lack of body awareness I saw my entire apartment as my self in a way. When people came in it felt as if they were inside me. Which was intensely uncomfortable. I can't even describe how invasive it felt.

I'm pretty sure I still have some of that but it's not as bad as it was. Not because my proprioception is any better but because I seem to do things like that in ways that don't get me hurt quite as bad. Doesn't mean they never happen though. What I still find is that I feel my body as external and have trouble locating "me" in a physical sense. And come to think of it this may explain pain and discomfort that I have around many people. Who knows.

Yeah. I like her, but sometimes our social styles clash so much, and there's only so much I can take. Oh, the irony.

But I should be explicit about the personal space for support, if nothing else. I like that plan.

You just need a porcupine suit with spines about 18 inches long.

edit: Might make it hard to buy balloons though.

I don't have something quite like this - and I generally have a sense of my body, if imperfect - but when people are in my private space - I mean, say my bedroom. Or during a brief time when I had no bedroom and people would move my bed to vacuum or clean stuff without saying anything. Stuff like that? I feel really violated, like the thought of someone possibly entering my bedroom has caused me to cancel travel plans in the past. I'm not sure how this relates to my personal space issues, or if it's more a matter of anxiety, but I do not love the idea of anyone being in my space like that.

One of the common "mundane" dream threads I have (mentioned in the dream thread) is that my bedroom is somehow open and unlocked to other people at all times. I find everything tidied up and rearranged or thrown out entirely, or sometimes it becomes almost like an additional hallway for people to get to other parts of the house. This is such a common dream for me, it's disturbing. It's practically never a nightmare, but it is nervewracking.



I like the cut of your jib, sir.

I'm not exactly sure why, but my brain jams up if there's too many people around, milling about. I've thought of it as a problem with processing all the movement quickly enough in order to calculate a clear-path trajectory. Sometimes at the exits of crowded stores I'll get stuck, with my brain saying, "GO-NO,STOP-GO-NO,STOP-..."

And it would make sense that body awareness would plays into it. (And my general awareness of where I am in space is pretty bad.)

So, I've thought of the stressful/bad-feelings as frustration from that. It's like peoples' presence is forcing me to do a lot more mental work/processing than I otherwise would do. I'm not 100% sure that's why, though. There's just something stressing about having people nearby and milling about. My dad has the same reaction, but his explanation that people are 'jumping in front of him' because they're thoughtless and rude.

As far as leaning on the cart, I find I tend not to 'feel' my feet or legs under me when I'm walking. So, I tend to feel like a balloon hovering in the air, with only vague sense of direction and position-in-space. But since having to use a cane at times, I've found that that the feeling in my hand of a solid connection to the ground helps a lot with that. (I tend not to bump my shoulders into the merchandise as much.) A cart also helps in that way, though a bit less, since there's the extra space of the cart to have to worry about.

It's hard to think of a practical, solution ATM though I have heard of people using the feel of a familiar object or such during overwhelming/overloading times to help stay 'centered.' (Maybe body awareness is getting lost because (for various reasons) overload is increasing?)


Now, if someone is standing so close that I can feel their body heat radiating onto me, that is definitely a personal space issue. It's like if they're breathing on me (and I don't know them), but worse.

Yes, this makes a lot of sense to me. I was in a crowded store today, and I think this may have been an issue. I was constantly stopping and trying to work out where to go, everyone else was just going.

And it does feel like sometimes people are jumping in front of me. Sometimes it's like, people will just start backing up without looking, and this always freaks me out.



Most carts aren't that good and there's the extra space. The carts at this particular CostCo are taller than other carts and have some kind of ... structure near the handle that is just about perfect for leaning on. The difference between that and other carts (in terms of centering my sense of my own body) is huge. That doesn't address the extra space, obviously.



Yeah, I used to take a book bag with me everywhere I went, filled with books, and having that helped a lot. I felt pretty disconnected without it. I think I should look for something that might not be quite so obvious, though.



If they're that close I will probably feel a lot of physical discomfort.

I have a sort of opposite problem. I don't really have an issue of people coming into my personal space... referring to near my body, not my personal room area, that's a different story hahaha. BUT, I have a really hard time going into someone else's personal space... it's like, I'm okay if someone brings themselves near me, but I can't bring myself near other people. It probably comes from my long-grown fear of offending anyone. Of course, there are exceptions... some people would make me uncomfortable if they got near because I might really, really not like them... or they smell bad or something.. XD And then there are a couple of people that I'm overbearing to... my brother, and one of my good friends, I guess because they feel very safe... you know, people that make you comfortable when you're around them. I find myself standing against them in public places like they were a wall, I never like to use my hands though, I always lean on people with the side of my arms, or my back.

But the thought of going into someone's space that I don't know makes me feel really panicked, because I don't know when it's okay to enter someone's space. For my friend and my brother, it's okay because we're so familiar that if they said get off me I'd tell them to shut up I'll sit on you when I want.

So while I can understand logically, it's hard for me to relate because I have no problem with people coming near me... you mind obviously interprets it as a threat, maybe a sense of being disrespected or unnoticed? Like... this is my space, why do you think you have the right to just come in it whenever you want??

I don't think there's an emotional component to it, like "you are a threat." That feels totally different. It's not even anxiety, even though it can cause anxiety. It's overstimulation. It happens around people I like and trust and people I do not like so much relatively equally.

I'm not sure what I said that obviously implied a state of mind. I mean, yes, I did say that people being around me makes me angry, but it's hard to imagine not having an emotional reaction to someone doing something that overstimulates me. But overstimulation itself isn't an emotional thing.

Going to the grocery store can feel like there are many tv's and radio's all going at the same time....

Yes, I feel the same way, about the store anyway. Sensory overload.

I will NOT allow people behind me and it doesn't matter who they are. I can not keep track of something if it is behind me. If somebody steps close to me I automatically step back. You haven't any idea how many things off shelves I've knocked over.

Anybody near me feels incredibly invasive and I also get that same feeling when somebody is in my room. My room is my safe place because it is closed in (door closed) so that I do not have to worry about people being around me.

I wouldn't have put it in the same words, but yes.

I get seriously stressed out when people are right behind me. I usually stop and let them pass so I can relax.

Yes, I have all those things.

I feel nervous when there's someone behind me or too close, I wouldn't have thought to put it in those words but I feel the sense that my space and possessions are part of me and the violation if they are disturbed.

The worst is when someone deliberately does something to "teach" me to be "normal". They don't see it so they have no conception of it.