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roadwarrior
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22 Jul 2006, 2:22 am

There are so many overlays between symptoms and syndromes that it's a bit of a fog at the moment. I know I have OCD and anxiety, but if I'm feeling good about myself I feel ok inside and can be quite sociable, although I've always been a quiet person.

Are there any aspies who don't sort of feel flat and trapped inside? Who can make and enjoy connections with people (strangers) and not feel inwardly any of the common symptoms associated with aspergers? But then later, if they're feeling depressed for whatever reason, they do exhibit some of the signs of aspergers? I seem to swing between the two.



Goofball
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22 Jul 2006, 2:36 am

I can swing back and forth sometimes depending on my mood and the types of personalities I'm around. Sometimes I can be real sociable and other times I feel like my mouth is taped up. My sister thinks my DX of AS is BS. :?



roadwarrior
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22 Jul 2006, 3:20 am

So what did you go through for the diagnosis? What do you think to different doctors giving different diagnoses? Were you clearly AS? I've only ever done the online tests. It seems I'm a bit borderline at the moment.



Goofball
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22 Jul 2006, 3:59 am

roadwarrior wrote:
So what did you go through for the diagnosis? What do you think to different doctors giving different diagnoses? Were you clearly AS? I've only ever done the online tests. It seems I'm a bit borderline at the moment.


I initially was researching a diagnosis for being bi-polar because of mood swings ("flash anger") and stumbled upon AS information. The more I read the more I thought I might have it, although I would say I'm at a high functioning end of AS. I cut and pasted information about AS that I identified with and printed it out to show my psychiatrist and asked his opinion. He referred me to a specialist who, after reading what I printed out and talking to me, agreed with my suspicions that I had AS. In addition to the information I had printed, I also included specific examples of why I identified with some of the things in my print outs.

As for different doctors, it couldn't hurt. Some doctors don't know their ass from a hole in the ground especially when it comes to a "new" disorder like AS. There aren't a whole lot of knowledgable doctors out there that know about it so going to multiple doctors might turn out to be a necessity. The most important thing is to really research things yourself so you can know whether or not a second opinion is warranted. It will improve your odds of receving a correct dx in the first place. I had to print out the information to show the doctors because I can be terrible at expressing myself verbally. The specialist was very happy with me over doing this because it made her job of assesing me a lot easier.

I wouldn't call myself clearly AS. Not by a long shot. To most people I appear normal for the most part.

When I first found info about AS I passed over it because I didn't think that described me. Some of the symptom lists I've seen don't do a good job at describing what it's like to have AS. When I found the article below, bells went off! This was among the information I printed out for my dx. Before printing it, I deleted the (few) things I didn't identify with.

--------------------------------

What is Asperger's Syndrome?

By Jerod Poore

What is it? Do I have it?

Asperger's Syndrome is a form of high-functioning autism, first identified in 1944 by Dr. Hans Asperger in Vienna and later refined in1981 by UK psychologist Lorna Wing. Asperger's is part of the autistic spectrum, and is in itself a spectrum syndrome. As such the effects range from severe to mild, although in autistic terms severe Asperger's is relatively benign. You may not fit into society very well, but you can still take care of your basic needs, more or less. Mild Asperger's is just seen as eccentric, except when those rages strike, then you're a first-class jerk with no self-control. Anyway, here are some of the characteristics found in Asperger's:

We just can't accept criticism or correction.
Yet when we offer criticism it invariably comes across as harsh and pedantic.
We just don't get the unwritten social rules, subtext and the unspoken communication such as stance, posture and facial expressions.
We often fail to distinguish between private and public personal care habits: e.g. nose picking, teeth picking, ear canal cleaning.
We often have a naïve trust in others.
We're painfully shy.
We have constant anxiety about performance and acceptance, despite frequent recognition and commendation.
We're brutally honest.
We're blunt in emotional expression.
We have the infamous flat affect.
We have either no apparent sense of humor or a bizarre sense of humor that stems from complex references that would be far too annoying to explain.
We have great difficulty with reciprocal displays of pleasantries, greetings and small talk.
We have a lot of problems expressing empathy, such as condolence or congratulations.
We can't obscure real feelings, moods, and reactions. It's either nothing or overwhelming, there is no emotional middle ground.
We will abruptly and strongly express our likes and dislikes.
In an attempt to deal with all that small talk, empathy, jokes and the like we will adopt rigid adherence to rules and social conventions per Miss Manners. Ooops.
We'll often fixate on and excessively talk about one, or a limited number of interests.
We have a flash temper & occasional tantrums.
We have incredible difficulty forming friendships and intimate relationships. Yet being desperate for emotional intimacy we have problems in distinguishing between acquaintance and friendship. We suffer from "one real friend at a time" syndrome, but can't really tell if the other person is reciprocating, and don't understand why they don't feel the same way.
We're socially isolated and often have an intense concern for privacy, despite not being able to understand "personal space" all that well.
We have limited clothing preference and will wear the same clothes for days at a time. We'll cut off all the tags on the inside of clothes and cannot wear certain fabrics.
Which goes along with various sensory sensitivities. Certain sensations, such as particular sounds, colors, tastes, smells, will just set us off.
We are the uberklutzen. We are clumsy. We have problems with balance and judging distances, height and depth. We have gross or fine motor coordination problems. And we frequently have an unusual gait, stance, and/or posture.
We have great difficulty in recognizing others’ faces (prosopagnosia) and the emotional expressions that play across your faces.
We have difficulty initiating or maintaining eye contact.
During periods of stress and frustration we'll raise our voices all right. But it won't be yelling. Call it "yelling" and you'll hear yelling. Then you'll know the difference.
We have some strong and unusual food preferences and aversions, and equally unusual and rigid eating behaviors.
Our personal hygiene is sometimes odd or leaves much to be desired.
We will just shutdown in response to conflicting demands or high stress.
We have a low understanding of the reciprocal rules of conversation. From person-to-person, day-to-day or conversation-to-conversation you'll find us interrupting and dominating, or not participating at all. We often have difficulty with shifting topics and will keep trying to steer things back on subject. It's just painful that we don't know how or when to start or stop a conversation.
We take literalism to new frontiers.
Our rage, tantrum, shutdown, and self-isolating reactions may appear "out of nowhere" but they really do have meaningful triggers. First there's a lot of self-anger, anger towards others and the world in general, and basic resentment. But where normal people are picking up non-verbal cues, we're picking up precise meanings and shades of meanings of the words that were chosen and how they relate to what may have been said months or years ago. Some clever turn of phrase may carry a lot of personal meaning that you just couldn't possibly understand.
We have extreme reaction to changes in routine, surroundings and people. This, like some of the others, is a general autistic trait. It's summed up by the autistic credo, "All change is bad."
Our conversational style is pedantic, as if we learned to speak English from watching Masterpiece Theatre. Which, in a way, a lot of us did.
Needless to say, we don't play well with others. To quote the Aspies' TV role model, Daria Morgendorfer, "The team is the last refuge of the mediocre individual."
We're often perceived as "being in our own world."



Xuincherguixe
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22 Jul 2006, 4:26 am

There is some amount of variation in people with Asperger's. Much of what is assumed to be part of what we are I think is due to how we adapt to circumstances.

So yeah, I think you could be friendly, and socialable.

I don't understand what you mean by flat or feeling inwardly any of the common symptoms, so I don't know how to respond to this. Most of us are introverts, but not all of us are it seems (I wonder about this). But being Introverted does not mean that one can't be social, nor that one does not desire to be social.

Asperger's Syndrome presents us with challenges, but this does not mean that we can't find ways to overcome.

Some of us adapt better then others. Some of us just give up. Some become some of the strongest, most powerful people in the world. This doesn't mean we've stopped having Asperger's. And much of what it is still applies (depending on what the definition is, and what is considered a symptom). So though you are unlikely to stop being an introvert, you could go to a rock concert (and maybe even enjoy it)



lupin
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22 Jul 2006, 5:15 am

I agree, Xuincherguixe, there has to be much variation because of adaptations/compensations, personality, life circumstances etc.

In answer to roadwarrior, I can make great connections with strangers - I love the 'strokes' and smiles that I get back, so I know that I've consciously developed (after much research and observations) a methodology to elicit 'friendliness' from people in stores, bus queues etc. But I can't keep it up for long, and certainly not amongst close people.

Also, I've always had a trapped-inside sort of a feeling, but obviously I don't know if it's the same as what you feel. Like I'm in a sealed bubble and I can clearly see that I can't make the connections that others do. Not sure about 'flat affect' - though I didn't laugh out loud until I was in my 20s. (that is, I didn't find anything funny enough, and/or was so disconnected from the world that nothing much touched me).

This business of doctors' knowledge is a real pain. I was chatting with a psychiatrist a while back (obviously not the one who dxed me) who said that there was no such thing as NLD and that AS is becoming 'far too fashionable' and far too many people get the dx when they're actually within the 'normal range' of experience. (He wasn't aware of my place in the sun LOL). Thanks, guy, I thought, you've just negated ALL my life experience and pain and struggle. Who is he to say what 'normal' is - based on HIS experience?? No thanks! (Feel a rant coming on...)

IMHO, what's happening now is that we hi-functioning spectrum people are popping up and asking the questions and the 'experts' have been taken on the hop, blind-sided. The 'experts' have been used to setting the 'rules' for joining the lo-functioning ASD club (hey, they can easily control that population) and now there's more and more more info out there, there's a massive 'backlog' of intelligent, articulate previously un-dxed AS people identifying and wanting recognition - and quite rightly so! We're coming out of the closet!

I agree with shopping around until you find a knowledgeable, sympathetic specialist. The Jerod Poore article is useful - though I don't think one has to have every single feature, it IS a spectrum brain type, there are bound to be many shades!



Captain_Brown
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22 Jul 2006, 5:19 am

Sometimes, I get moodswings, but most of the time I am happy. :)



Jamie06
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22 Jul 2006, 5:40 am

I can be sociable at times then their is certain times i find it hard.



Yupa
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22 Jul 2006, 10:47 am

The title of this topic pretty much describes me (Minus the fact that I'm more prone to smirk or chuckle than be "smiley".)
I have social skills, and I am sociable, but regardless, I don't have many close friends.
Mostly because I forget to ask for peoples' e-mail adresses, phone numbers, and other contact info, and when I do get that information, I'm too nervous to use it.
btw I don't think "aspergic" is a real word.



krex
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22 Jul 2006, 11:42 am

Wee bit off topic,but...this thread reminded me of a feeling/thoughts I had during my most stressed time...Highschool....walking between classes or in forced social situations....I used to have the actual physical sensation/thought...that I was a spider sitting in my brain, looking out my eyes at the world...I did not "feel" in my body....I think that is what is meant as dissociation?....It was a very disturbing feeling

Anyone else experience this feeling?

The best way I learned to deal with this to some extent, was "pretending to be a characture"I hung out with a group of "gutter punks" and I would just pretend I was playing the role of this "hardcore person"sometimes it was hard to keep a straight face though, because "I" knew what a wimp/nerd, I really was and it was kind of funny eliciting shock or nerviousness from the preppys who used to give me such grief in college....kind of fun and at least got to "stay in my body" during social situations, because I felt safer... :lol:


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lupin
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22 Jul 2006, 12:18 pm

@ Krex - well, it may be a bit off topic but, on the other hand, this thread is about being sociable or not as well :lol:

I haven't had the spider feeling exactly, but I do know what it's like to dissociate from my body - it's much rarer these days but when it happens I seem to be alongside myself and just observing.

It's a lot to do with anxiety in social situations for me. It sounds like your role playing was a useful thing to learn how to do - I've only recently understood that I do this ALL the time out there, it's been the only way for me to survive and earn a living. Extremely exhausting though and I need loads of 'being myself' time in private to compensate. It occurs to me that maybe NTs do this role playing all the time without realising?? LOL - maybe they just ignore the other Hedgehogs' prickles!



roadwarrior
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22 Jul 2006, 8:21 pm

Yupa wrote:
btw I don't think "aspergic" is a real word.


I like it though :) It's almost like saying, are you allergic?



emc
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22 Jul 2006, 9:17 pm

It's a Developmental disorder, so as I'm in my 30's, the Psychiatrist, then the Psychologist spoke to my Mum about my childhood.

That made the diagnosis quite clear, along with hearing myself on old cassette tapes, seeing old family movies, old photos, old school reports etc.



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23 Jul 2006, 4:13 pm

I don't feel flat or trapped inside at all, but am very aware of my AS. I am naturally shy and it can take quite a bit of time to get to know me but when I come out of myself, I find I can socialise quite well with others, or so others have told me :D

I always exhibit signs of AS no matter how I'm feeling and I view these signs as positive as I wouldn't be me without them.


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roadwarrior
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23 Jul 2006, 8:33 pm

emc, what were some of the questions they asked your mum? I'll try and relate them to my childhood when I'm next on the phone with mine :) What did you notice on the photos? Was it that lack of "intent and projection" I've read about? What was the common theme that tied together your school reports?



roadwarrior
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23 Jul 2006, 8:38 pm

Fiz, so if social problems are central to AS, what signs do you exhibit (apart from your initial shyness)? Is it pretty much everything, like tone of voice, facial expressions etc? I don't understand if you don't have this sensation of feeling flat or trapped within walls that separate you from what's going on around you, just how your AS manifests itself?