I had coffee with two neighbours yesterday...

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ediself
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12 Mar 2011, 9:00 am

...And it reminded me why I stopped socializing.
Imagine the setting: sunny afternoon, you went to your neighbour's house because she has kitten to give away, she asks you to stay for coffee, a friend of hers is there. The 3 of you are sitting in the garden around a coffee table, in the sun, and...
Those 2 women, my age, who invited me, were talking to each other. I was sitting there, at the beginning trying to laugh along as they exchanged funny stories, then I noticed their eyes had not crossed mine for a while, and noone was turning to me when I made a small comment proving I was there. I was INVISIBLE.
It's not that I had stayed too long, because it was maybe 30 minutes between the coffee being served and me trying to leave.
When I started saying I was going to go, they didn't turn to me or stand up, I stood up, started walking towards the door, they were still sitting. I all but screamed "I'm GOING now!! !! !" but they just nodded vaguely, and kept talking to each other.
There was no time or opportunity for any social faux pas on my part, it's just that my very presence or existence seems to not register with people. I am invisible!! !! well, I had had that feeling back in high school sometimes, even a bit later, but this was the first time I socialised since learning about autism, and boy was it obvious.
They didn't feel that I was really there. They are nice women, really I'm pretty sure they did none of it on purpose, but it feels so strange to realize something is just wrong about your presence to the world.
I'm not "there" enough for people, I'm a bit transparent, it feels so weird.....
What do you think it is? Do people emit a sort of vibe that I don't have? That feeling of being just an observer and being on a slightly different plane than other people, could it have some grounds in reality and not just be a "feeling" we get? Could we REALLY be somehow "not really there"?
this is messing with my head a bit :P



Bluefins
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12 Mar 2011, 9:16 am

Quote:
Location: behind you!! !

Yep, you're invisible :lol:

Happens with me too.



Lene
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12 Mar 2011, 9:31 am

That was rude of them. The only 'explanation' I can think of is that the offer of coffee was just a polite (i.e fake) one and you unwittingly outstayed your welcome... but even then, it was rude.

Or perhaps she's a very casual person and figured you'd make yourself heard if you wanted, or would come and go as you felt?

I hate that feeling of being invisible too. I get it when I'm in the middle of a small group of girls and another will come in and stand in front of me, or I'll try to join and no one will move apart to let me join in (I've grown to really appreciate people who do). I also get talked over/ignored too. A lot.

Recently though, one girl actually listened to me over another one (in fairness the other girl talks over everybody). I was so shocked, I couldn't continue my sentence! :lol:

Anyways, did you get your kitten at least?



Last edited by Lene on 12 Mar 2011, 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pandora_Box
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12 Mar 2011, 9:32 am

Happens with me as well.



ediself
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12 Mar 2011, 10:02 am

Lene wrote:
That was rude of them. The only 'explanation' I can think of is that the offer of coffee was just a polite (i.e fake) one and you unwittingly outstayed your welcome... but even then, it was rude.

Or perhaps she's a very casual person and figured you'd make yourself heard if you wanted, or would come and go as you felt?


It could be the second idea, I really don't think the coffee offer was fake since she just said: "Oh, I'm going to make some coffee" since we were waiting for her friend to bring a box thingy to transport the cat...Her idea again, I never asked for anything! (I rarely do..). She's the kind of hippy woman who gave birth at home, doesn't believe in authority and breastfeeds for years, she's really relaxed so it's not really a matter of me doing something wrong I think...
I don't know. Speaking up is something I can do but if people don't turn to me when I speak, it's strange...and it's not about them either, everybody does it to me, and i've seen countless threads about this on here, it happens to all of us.
I just wish I knew where it comes from, because obviously, it's something about us.



Lene
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12 Mar 2011, 10:24 am

ediself wrote:
Lene wrote:
That was rude of them. The only 'explanation' I can think of is that the offer of coffee was just a polite (i.e fake) one and you unwittingly outstayed your welcome... but even then, it was rude.

Or perhaps she's a very casual person and figured you'd make yourself heard if you wanted, or would come and go as you felt?


It could be the second idea, I really don't think the coffee offer was fake since she just said: "Oh, I'm going to make some coffee" since we were waiting for her friend to bring a box thingy to transport the cat...Her idea again, I never asked for anything! (I rarely do..). She's the kind of hippy woman who gave birth at home, doesn't believe in authority and breastfeeds for years, she's really relaxed so it's not really a matter of me doing something wrong I think...
I don't know. Speaking up is something I can do but if people don't turn to me when I speak, it's strange...and it's not about them either, everybody does it to me, and i've seen countless threads about this on here, it happens to all of us.
I just wish I knew where it comes from, because obviously, it's something about us.


Hmm, it sounds like it may be more about her in this case... I met a woman once who complained about her (very hippy) friend doing something similar to this as well. She felt that her friend was being rude for not treating her like a guest when she visited, but I suggested that maybe it was just that, as a previous tenant, she was considered too close to be treated differently to a normal family member,

Or she could just have been so fascinated by talk of crystals and chi healing power that she was spaced out to the world.... :wink:



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12 Mar 2011, 10:25 am

ediself wrote:
I'm not "there" enough for people, I'm a bit transparent, it feels so weird.....


It happens to me too. Sometimes people start telling me what happened there or then and I say: "yes, I know that happened because I was there too, remember?". And they go like "Oh yeah.... you were..." or even "Really? You were there too?" even though I was sitting right next to them :roll:



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12 Mar 2011, 10:26 am

Yeah, I've 'been in' conversations where I've realized that I could just leave and no one would really notice or care much even though they were my friends. Oh, they'd care if I'd tell them why I left at a later date and promise not to do it again and then break it the very next time, but at the time they usually wouldn't even notice. On the rare occasion that they do notice I'm leaving they'd look surprised, I'd get an "Aww, but why are you leaving? We're having so much fun, don't go." response even though no one had spoken to me or even glanced in my direction for the last hour. I'm a bit surprised by that, I thought I was supposed to be the one oblivious to social cues but they didn't notice that they'd completely excluded me from their conversation for an hour or more and I'd just been sitting there bored looking out the window. And it's not that I don't try to get in and participate, but they'd just sort of glaze over me, I'd have their attention for 2 seconds and then it would be "Oh, and did you read that wonderful book by that new guy?" directed by one of them at another of them and my attempt to be noticed would be successfully foiled.

It especially happens when people start to talk about things they know only they have in common and I don't do, like hobbies they share that I do not. Yet we do share some hobbies, but they prefer talking about the ones only they have in common. When I do that with someone else, it's rude to whoever doesn't have that hobby, yet when they do it it's 'having fun'. I used to just leave and go home to play games when people did this to me, if I had friends left in the country I probably still would. I mean if 'having fun' with friends just makes you feel MORE miserable and alone than sitting alone in your room then what's the point?



simon_says
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12 Mar 2011, 10:34 am

Happens sometimes with me.

I think you've failed to meet certain social standards like input to the conversation, direct eye contact, etc. They may assume you have some issue at home that is taking up your thought processes. But whatever they think about the reason, they don't think you are involved and in the moment with them.

They only know what signals you've passed them and as social animals they are very attuned to it.



ediself
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12 Mar 2011, 10:43 am

KBerg wrote:
And it's not that I don't try to get in and participate, but they'd just sort of glaze over me, I'd have their attention for 2 seconds and then it would be "Oh, and did you read that wonderful book by that new guy?" directed by one of them at another of them and my attempt to be noticed would be successfully foiled.

It especially happens when people start to talk about things they know only they have in common and I don't do, like hobbies they share that I do not. Yet we do share some hobbies, but they prefer talking about the ones only they have in common. When I do that with someone else, it's rude to whoever doesn't have that hobby, yet when they do it it's 'having fun'. I used to just leave and go home to play games when people did this to me, if I had friends left in the country I probably still would. I mean if 'having fun' with friends just makes you feel MORE miserable and alone than sitting alone in your room then what's the point?


That first part is what makes me wonder what it is. Speaking doesn't help them notice we're there. And I'm pretty sure they were not ignoring me for a reason such as looking strange (let's pretend that weird girl isn't there, maybe she will leave), because I appeared perfectly normal, fresh out of the shower, hair in order, even a bit of makeup, dressed as normally as anyone else (tight jeans, a pink sweater, clean sneakers, nothing odd), I look a bit young for my age and all my life dreamed about turning 30 so I would finally get noticed when i spoke, since I thought maybe people were mistaking me for a teenager and that was why they were acting as if I shouldn't even try to include myself in conversations. But no, now I think the problem is really somewhere else.
They were discussing education and children, and I have two of those, so logically what I could have to say would have been perfectly fitting in the conversation, but they never turned to me. As a result I know all about their life with their children, and they don't even know the names of mine :D
Judging from the way the conversation was going, a stranger would have assumed I was childless and possibly under 15 myself.
edit: No actually, an NT stranger would have seen only two women sitting in a garden and having coffee, introduced himself to them and sat on my lap thinking the chair was empty.



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12 Mar 2011, 2:42 pm

I totally believe the OP. My father who is an aspie like me walked into a room the other day and I didn't even see him. I was talking to someone else. He just has such an unassuming, undramatic prescence and afterwards I couldn't work out how I didn't see him. But I made a fuss of him when I did - which your people still aren't doing.

Is it caused by being calm, by a lack of drama? People are drawn to drama like a moth to the flame, I'm told that is why very disturbed
people attract others.

People also choose to pay attention first to those they secretly fear. We usually aren't very scary. In my extended family I am completely of no account, and I think that is why.


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12 Mar 2011, 2:54 pm

I know that feeling of being invisible. It happens to me all the time too and I've often wondered why. People act like I'm not there and if I say something they act like they didn't hear anything. I wonder if people are ignoring us or if they honestly stop noticing that we're there or hearing us when we talk. It would make sense that there is some kind of a vibe missing that people generally feel from each other to register each other's presence, but it's hard to know for sure. Some things are hard to explain. :?



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12 Mar 2011, 3:04 pm

I've often very invisible too. It's usually because I DO take on the role of an observer or listener, though. Many times I'd rather listen to a conversation than actually participate in it. It can get boring after a certain amount of time, though, and my attention will wane if I'm not active enough. Though, of course, when the conversation does slow down, I'm usually the one everyone turns to for what REALLY happened (the matter-of-fact report) or to hear advice or miscellaneous wisdom from me. I think I give off a very "wise" aura for some reason or another. xD Even though I don't feel particularly smart most of the time. I do make certain connections where others don't, though.


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12 Mar 2011, 3:12 pm

ediself wrote:
...And it reminded me why I stopped socializing.
Imagine the setting: sunny afternoon, you went to your neighbour's house because she has kitten to give away, she asks you to stay for coffee, a friend of hers is there. The 3 of you are sitting in the garden around a coffee table, in the sun, and...
Those 2 women, my age, who invited me, were talking to each other. I was sitting there, at the beginning trying to laugh along as they exchanged funny stories, then I noticed their eyes had not crossed mine for a while, and noone was turning to me when I made a small comment proving I was there. I was INVISIBLE.
It's not that I had stayed too long, because it was maybe 30 minutes between the coffee being served and me trying to leave.
When I started saying I was going to go, they didn't turn to me or stand up, I stood up, started walking towards the door, they were still sitting. I all but screamed "I'm GOING now!! !! !" but they just nodded vaguely, and kept talking to each other.
There was no time or opportunity for any social faux pas on my part, it's just that my very presence or existence seems to not register with people. I am invisible!! !! well, I had had that feeling back in high school sometimes, even a bit later, but this was the first time I socialised since learning about autism, and boy was it obvious.
They didn't feel that I was really there. They are nice women, really I'm pretty sure they did none of it on purpose, but it feels so strange to realize something is just wrong about your presence to the world.
I'm not "there" enough for people, I'm a bit transparent, it feels so weird.....
What do you think it is? Do people emit a sort of vibe that I don't have? That feeling of being just an observer and being on a slightly different plane than other people, could it have some grounds in reality and not just be a "feeling" we get? Could we REALLY be somehow "not really there"?
this is messing with my head a bit :P

Pardon me for saying but those two women sound extremely rude! When I read that, it shocked me that two people can be so absolutely rude to a guest. Why do people act like that? I'll never understand it. It's not your fault. How they acted says more about them than it does about you. I encounter similar people all the time and they perplex me, and yes, they make me feel like I don't want to socialize and be around people, prefering my own company, instead.



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12 Mar 2011, 3:48 pm

I wonder whether they were good friends with each other and did not realize they were excluding you because they had so much to talk about themselves.

Or maybe they were talking in a way that left few pauses in the conversation; and those that were there a NT would have noticed quickly enough to take advantage of and join in, but you weren't fast enough and by the time you knew you wanted to say something they were already talking again...


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12 Mar 2011, 3:53 pm

Callista wrote:
I wonder whether they were good friends with each other and did not realize they were excluding you because they had so much to talk about themselves.

Or maybe they were talking in a way that left few pauses in the conversation; and those that were there a NT would have noticed quickly enough to take advantage of and join in, but you weren't fast enough and by the time you knew you wanted to say something they were already talking again...

That sounds plausible, or maybe not. I've been in groups of four or more, not being the only newbie, with two or more of the people familiar with each other, and they will treat the other newbies nicely and try to engage them while they either ignore me or put down something I say. People tend to know what they are doing in these matters. A lot of tiimes it is just plain rudeness, no excuses. It is what it is. It's frustrating too, but oh well. What can you do about it? Stand up and scream STOP BEING SO RUDE TO ME!! ! If I bring it to their attention quietly they either make excuses or shrug it off. Either way, it's a situation where I feel discounted and disrespected.