Want to provide a good environment for 12yo HFA boy to learn

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Hi Folks
Here's the situation. I'll describe it with "just the facts" - as close to no judgement on my part as I can.

My girlfriend's 12y/o son lives with us half-time. Other half with his dad.

He spends a lot of time looking at cars and telling us about them. He spends a lot of time bouncing a ball, watching YouTube videos, and downloading songs to his iTunes.

He seems to want to talk only about things he thinks he's an expert at. He gets very upset if someone asks him what he means by something - like if he uses a word he doesn't understand and someone asks him what he meant. Any challenge to his being an expert at something provokes a big emotional response.

Similarly, he "freezes up" and gets upset when presented with something novel, like math homework or a request to go deeper into something that interests him. For instance, he loves cars but this love is for listing models and features. If I approach him about how they work, e.g. how an engine works, he avoids.

I'm a filmmaker. He likes me and wants to do as I do so he says he's going to make movies. He tells me the names of the movies he's going to make. When I try to engage him in how to make a movie, even simple bits, he disengages, preferring to talk about the movies he's going to make and how great they'll be.

I believe that practice is the key to mastery. He's very good at bouncing his ball. He does it a lot. Practice. How do we provide an environment such that he'll engage and spend time learning new things?

I firmly believe he has the mental horsepower to do things. When helping him with math, he eventually can understand things. But he puts so much energy into hating the math and telling himself he doesn't understand that there's no time or energy left to actually see the math. Help!

We are all different. So there is no "magic bullet" to help him. I wish there were. I've been caught up in too many traps in my own life, and seen others trapped without understanding how to get out. But all you can do is try to understand what may cause problems, and what may help him.

1: The educational system has a tendency to do exactly what you describe to many of us. But there is only so much you can do about that.

2: Half his time in one household, and half in another, is a major disruption even for an NT kid. For someone like us... This is probably one of the things preventing him from settling down. Not sure what you can do about that, except try to make him as comfortable as possible while he's with you - and ease his settling in when he comes back as much as you can. (For example, whatever his sensory issues are, do whatever you can to avoid those being triggered; help him avoid stress and feel as safe as possible.)

3: Don't try to get him to do anything directly. Let him watch what you do - especially let him see how you must struggle to work out certain issues. Show him by example - without being obvious - how you tackle things you don't know. This will probably be a long, slow process. But that's better than one that will just drive him further into retreat. If he's twelve, he's just beginning the long, torturous process of being forced to spend most of his days trapped with savage little monsters (aka NT bullies) who will be putting enormous pressure on him in the other direction. So don't expect miracles. Maybe, eventually, if he learns to trust you enough - and you don't shatter that trust - you can do more.

4: Do everything you reasonably can to make him comfortable, to understand his needs, even when those don't make sense to you. I know one reason I felt such a need to be an expert was because I was challenged on so much - even things that I knew I was right on. (I grew up when AS or HFA was unknown or so obscure no one ever would have considered it, so I was just labeled "difficult".) Example: (this will not be the same for him, but the point I'm making is the principle, not the specific) I am a writer. I own what many people would consider an absurd number of pens (closing in on 80, still buying...). Yet, these are tools that assist my mind in transferring my thoughts to paper. So I need as little "friction" as possible between my mind and the paper. Literally and figuratively. So I am on a constant quest for pens that will be suitable for various situations and will impose as little friction as possible. Nibs that seem to float over the surface of the paper, filling systems that don't disrupt my thought process unnecessarily (or enough ink capacity I don't have to worry about it while I'm writing), and, in some cases (as when I want to write outdoors), pens that aren't so expensive I need to worry unduly about something happening to them. In addition, certain pens - and inks - provide inspiration for certain stories. I have vintage pens, and others that have a vintage look and feel, and I can fill them up with the Noodlers "V-Mail" series of inks if I want to write a story set in World War Two. That's an absurdly obvious example, but you get the idea. You might not need to coddle your mind so much to coax the ideas out - I do, and he will, too. Fighting this impulse will only discourage him. And I doubt he understands why he would seek out certain things; it has taken me years to comprehend how and why pens affect me in the ways that they do.

If anything isn't clear, or you have any questions or thoughts you'd like to discuss, feel free to get in touch with me. I hate the idea of "my people" - and, yes, after years of feeling like an outcast even among the outcasts, once I finally discovered who and what I was, I learned to recognise everyone on "the spectrum" as "my people" - stuck in traps like this one, which the uncaring pressures of the NT world create for them. (I'm not accusing you of being uncaring; obviously, you're trying to figure out what you can do. But most of the world doesn't care what they do to us.) So, I fight it however and wherever I can. Which is much less than I'd like to be able to do.

There's a Parent's Forum where you can talk to other parents about this.

Thank you Wanderer, for your thoughtful reply.
I'm afraid I'll get flamed for this reply, but here goes...

I understand that things are difficult for him. One thing I don't understand is how to tell the difference between his struggling because of HFA on the one hand, and being a young teen taking advantage of a "get out of jail free card" (his HFA) in order to get out of doing things like homework, cleaning up after himself, and somewhat considerate to those around him. I think we'd be doing him a disservice if we overprotect him, ignore too much, and do too much for him.

I don't think I'd have learned to take other people into account if I didn't get some sort of feedback when I did something uncaring. If the answer is always "those other people are mean" even when he does something that "deserves" a response then what reason will he have to try and learn social skills?

Right now he actually intentionally irritates people. When he sees that something he's doing is getting someone uncomfortable he does more of it. I imagine this is because it's a way he knows he can get a reaction and become involved in a conversation. I understand he wants attention - we all do. I know it's hard to enter into a conversation that other people are having. Still, doing so by pushing someone's boundaries until they get upset and then saying "I didn't mean it I didn't mean it" is not effective interpersonal communication and certainly something I wouldn't want to encourage or even ignore. It also doesn't serve him well because he's burned by their reply. He sometimes says "why does everyone treat me like crap." I know the answer but not how to tell him so that he'll understand it.

I'm asking here rather than in the parents' forum, because I want to know from people who actually know what it feels like. He's both HFA and a young teenager. Teens naturally test limits. Parents set boundaries so that kids can discover, in the safety of home, where society's lines are. There will be limits in the real world and, if he doesn't discover them, and how to cope with them, at home I fear he will not be able to do so (read: go to college) when he "grows up."

He may not realize that it's irritation he's causing. I used to deliberately try to get someone's face to make all these cool wrinkles... I had no idea that what I was doing was upsetting her.

Na. Your first post showed how much thought you were putting into this.



I wish I could give you something here. I still can't easily separate what I am doing into "autistic-ness" and just "stupid human tricks".

Since he is able to think (no facetiousness intended), lead him to form conclusions. Instead of telling him "don't be hurtful" figure out how he thinks about things and nudge his thinking. I know we really never know how others think, but we can make decent guesses when we try. Autism is essentially thinking and perceiving differently. You need to learn to speak Martian.

Maybe he doesn't know how to explain it.

Similarly, maybe it's the talking that's the problem. Doing things practically is very different from doing them theoretically.

With the social stuff, he might also not know how to approach people in a better manner.

Unfortunatly you are a bigot, you are 180 degrees opposite to this child, and I say this in a kindly manner, so don't be offended. You see the world through the mind of an NT and are able to see another mind working or able to read minds and it might seem simple to you, but for individuals on the spectrum (ASD) they are blind to this understanding,this ability you have to download information from someones eyes or facial expression. This young adult talks to you about his special interests because he wants to impress you, be friends with you, but you seem to deliberatly annoy or confuse him by changing the subject, why? this is no doubt hard for him to understand and will lower his self esteem and make him feel alone, misunderstood. After a conversation with you he probably self harms. You say he uses the "get out of jail free card", but isn't that exactly what your doing? when you say "I imagine this" he can't imagine anything, nor can the majority of ASD individuals. You need to educate yourself on autism before you make rash statements and no we won't flame you that is a typical NT response, we are emotionally like pastel paints, not deep rich reds etc. we simply reply. You are being offensive without realising it,or using the get out of jail free card "I'm an NT I don't understand", but we welcome you to the forum if your serious about learning about ASD and not just trying to impress his mother so you can a "relationship" with her.

patiz- I'm not going to flame back at you. Please know that I don't change the subject out from under him. I'm generally very patient with him and explain things carefully and without any angry affect.

I expected to be flamed by at least one person here. Such is life. I just hope for constructive responses and am pleased that theWanderer has chosen to engage assuming I'm seeking in good faith.

Although I understand why Patiz got so upset, anyone who makes an honest effort to understand others is not a bigot. No one can hope to understand everything about what it is like to be someone else. If that were bigotry, then we'd all be bigots. The people who at least try to understand certainly are not the bigots. I do believe that you are seeking in good faith - and that you raise some real concerns - but I don't have any good answer for you on how to resolve those concerns. Yes, I'm sure much of what he does is harmful to his own best interests - I shot myself in the foot over and over at his age and for years afterward. But I was incapable of understanding that until much later.

I understand a lot more than I did when I was twelve - and I still can't be sure when I'm really unable to do something and when I'm making excuses. We all are tempted to make excuses for ourselves; you're right about that. Human nature is human nature. The trouble is, so many people accuse us of making up excuses when we are not, from the moment we are old enough to understand anything, that we can't (or at least I can't) sort out which is which. Think about it. If you were told that you were just making excuses a number of times when you knew that you weren't, and yet people insisted that they were right and seemed certain, don't you think you'd get confused? And, yes, when I was a teenager, I basically said to myself that since I was accused of so many things I hadn't done, screw it, I wasn't going to worry about it. I literally didn't know any other way to preserve my sanity. I've come a long way since then, and I really try not to make excuses for myself. I understand that the points you made are valid, and so I don't want to make excuses for myself - or, at the very least, even if I'm having a bad day, I at least want to know the difference myself. But so many years of being told I was making excuses when I was sure I wasn't have confused me so much I literally can't tell. Some days, I feel as if everything is an excuse, others I think I can't help any of it, and only rarely am I able to even pretend to maintain any balance between the two.

So I doubt that any twelve year old has the slightest hope of understanding the difference; at best, they can swallow whatever the adults around them tell them, and try to act according to that understanding. The problem? Those adults are not inside them, they don't know what it is like, so they can't know. Sooner or later, they will get it wrong so badly the kid will figure out they're wrong - and then, how is he supposed to trust what they say?

I'll give you a concrete example. Again, I'm very sure this isn't anything your girlfriend's son has experienced, but the point is the general idea of how this can happen, not the specifics. I was born with crossed eyes and very poor vision. Some of my earliest memories are of visits to eye doctors - endless visits, throughout my childhood - and of getting yelled at for flinching at the bright lights they shone in my eyes. I was told I was wrong, a sissy, a brat, you name it. Last fall, at fifty-one, an eye doctor finally diagnosed the condition I was born with: ocular albinism. And he actually apologised for all the lights he shone into my eyes, because one of the features of OA is light sensitivity. My reaction? I was gobsmacked that I had a medically validated excuse for my hatred of flashbulbs, oncoming headlights, etc. The pain of those lights in my eyes was so much less than many other sensory issues that bother me, I'd actually come to the conclusion I was just being fussy when it came to bright lights. Lest you think that is the only time I've been told something totally untrue, when I was nearly eleven, I got an ear infection, and my pediatrician set about digging the wax out of my ears. I was screaming in pain, utter agony really, and he told me I was a crybaby, to shut up and stop fussing. When he was done, my ear began tickling, so I reached up to scratch it - and when I took my hand away, it was covered with blood. He ignored me, turned to my mother, and said, "How was I supposed to know he had hair in his ears?" Apparently, my screaming never gave him a clue. This kid may not have lived through that exact experience, but just a few things anything like that, and you lose your ability to trust anyone who tells you that you're wrong about anything.

Yes, we're wrong, too. We are human, we are not always right. But the trouble is, we tend to be wrong in different ways, and we tend to have a very easy time picking out the mistakes NTs make. We are very good at spotting that the emperor is naked, instead of wearing fancy new clothes in some fine fabric. So we learn not to trust the things NTs tell us. We do make other mistakes, ones that hurt us - but we have no one we can trust to explain them to us. I know in my case, I only began to learn and to understand anything about myself after, finally, someone figured out that I really didn't understand some of the things I was being attacked for, and gave me credit for that. And I was an adult, and had already learned a lot, through a lot of pain.

And teenagers are naturally difficult. I probably should have been shot when I was a teenager... But in my own defense, it is unbelievably hard to devote any effort at all to learning how to become a decent human being when the law forces you to spend much of your time crammed into a school with a herd of savage bullies who do whatever they can to make your life a living hell because you are not like them. Yes, there are those in the herd who are not bullies - but, since they have the herd instinct we lack, they know enough not to get in the way of the bullies, so they leave us alone. So we're alone, or almost so, with all this pain. The only way to survive it is to pretend at least some of the malicious ways we are treated aren't really meant as malicious (in a way, they probably aren't; at least some of the NT teenagers have no idea what they're doing when they respond to that herd instinct to turn on the different member and rip them to shreds). Which confuses us more, and makes it harder for us to learn how not to irritate anyone. How can we learn that? Between the bullies who deliberately irritate us, and a world that is unaware of or unwilling to adjust to our sensory issues, we are being irritated all the time. We think of it as normal; that's just how people behave. I was so used to it, I think was in my thirties (or, at the very least, late twenties) before I figured out that everyone didn't just irritate everyone else to get what they wanted. That was what I experienced in my own life, so how could I suspect it was any different for anyone else?

So, yes, I was a jerk, and hell to be around. And it hurts to face that now, but I am, because I'm trying to help you understand how it is for us. I didn't want to be. I didn't even understand that was what I was. As an alien trying to survive on a strange planet, that was the best I could figure out the rules. Someone else on here once posted a description that explained the feeling very well; life for us is like living in one of those video games where you need to figure out that the guy fishing expects you to offer to trade the old boots you found for one of his fish, so you can take the fish and trade it for the key you need to get into the dungeon... but the game never tells you this, and the only hints it gives you are obscure, and you're frustrated because you have no idea how to move forward in the game.

None of this is your fault. You're trying to help; you certainly shouldn't be the one who has to put up with the crap. But it isn't your girlfriend's son's fault, either. And much of what has happened in his life has confused him and left him unable to know himself when he's being a jerk. In that sense, none of it is an excuse. Not that we don't make excuses like everybody else, but that we don't even know how to tell when we really are and we're just being accused of it. I still find myself feeling guilty for things I know are good, because I was so confused for so long my feelings are still tangled up.

It isn't that the concerns you raise aren't valid. They are. I just don't know what you can do about them in a situation like ours. All I do know is that I had to feel safe, that I had to be accepted, before I could dare begin explore these questions. Of course, I had to go through a tremendous amount of pain, and have at least some of my rough edges polished off the hard way, before anyone accepted me enough to let me start that process. I nearly killed myself a few times, and tried to get myself killed a lot more. I hated life, I wanted to die, I couldn't bear to live the life I was living, yet I had no idea how to fix it. Some of the answers I've found fall into the realm of faith - and I'm not going to preach to you, just to say that there are things I'm leaving out for that reason - but aside from that, the only answer that has ever worked for me was feeling accepted enough that I could dare to face myself, to admit my own limitations.

Read Congratulations! You Child is Strange
It can be found here: http://www.asdstuff.com/grats.html
Then come back to us when you have read it, IN DETAIL.

Please know that patiz- I'm not going to flame back at you. Please know that I don't change the subject out from under him. I'm generally very patient with him and explain things carefully and without any angry affect.

I expected to be flamed by at least one person here. Such is life. I just hope for constructive responses and am pleased that theWanderer has chosen to engage assuming I'm seeking in good faith.

I specifically said we would not flame you and I did'nt. I am simply pointing out to you that you are more concerned with yourself, (I don't change the subject, I expected to be flamed, etc) I am a life long Aspie, I have endured intolerance from NT's and if you are willing to take a different view than that of an NT then you can easily learn about autism. Think how you react when your usual route to work is changed by road works, do you get upset by this change in routine-probably. Think now how difficult it is for a child to deal with this change when routine is 10 x more important. Why? Think what is like, you know every turn, every road name, the time it takes to depart and arrive, every turn of the steering wheel when cornering and then it suddenly changes, it is disorientating, full of fear not knowing what's happened, wondering if you did something wrong, a thought that loops around in your head, a simple conversation is the same, if it changes then all these terrible things appear in your mind and all you can say is I have HFA, it's a form of echoalia, it's feeble to a NT I know, but what else can you say? A conversation with a individual who has a autistic spectrum disorder is the same as a routine and the conversation will have to be agreed, anything else will seem like a punishment, go with his special interest find out about car specifications and introduce them. Allow him to go through the routine of saying maths is hard, then introduce the change, tack it on to the end of his routine conversation to build the routine in a direction you want. If you want to change something tell him well in advance and explain in detail what is required of him ie sit in the car, put your seat belt on, then give him the directions, that is, road names you will use, where you will park, what building you will be going to, what he should do at that building, do not alter anything and so on. Remember he doesn't know that you can think, he cannot read your mind, he knows your important, but doesn't know why. It's a guessing game for him. So he will try his special interest first then your special interest i.e cars then film, be aware he might have oppositional resistance disorder as well, it's not deliberate. I can only hope that I have said something that connects with you, I apologise if you think I flamed you, but please remember that I have very little in the way of emotional intelligence.

Patiz- thanks for explaining what you intended in your first message. I did feel flamed and I'm glad to hear that was not your intent.

You're right - I do say "I" a lot. I try to use "I" statements as opposed to, say, "you" statements as a way to take responsibility for and acknowledge my emotions, and that my view of the world is subjective. I try to separate my opinions from facts. I do this because I have some amount of OCD and an anxiety disorder. Keeping facts and thoughts distinct helps me greatly with this.

Also, using "I" as opposed to "you" statements helps me avoid unintentionally attacking people. When one says "you did this" it's a lot easier for the other person to feel attacked as opposed to when one says "I feel sad" or some such.

I understand that change is much harder to handle for an Aspie than an NT. I also know that I sometimes forget this when talking to him. Sometimes, but not often. I tend to be the most calming person he talks to. He's said this often. I don't think I'm emotionally beating him up the way it SEEMS like you think I might be.

We are actually both interested in cars and I'm fine talking with him about them.

We're both NOT interested in math. I try to help him with his homework when he asks me to. Where I get into trouble emotionally (i.e. I get upset) is when he asks me to help and then doesn't pay attention to the math I'm explaining.

It FEELS like he wants me to just fill in the answers for him. I'm not willing to do this because it doesn't help anyone. So I make up smaller, simpler problems that he's shown me he has enough understanding to handle.

He sometimes can do these but he gets frustrated fairly easily and, once frustrated, has a very hard time getting back on track. It seems to be more comfortable for him to just fill in any answer (i.e. guess) than to spend some time trying to figure out what the answer might be. This seems to be the core of his problem - at least learning-wise. It's so uncomfortable to not know the answer right away that he pulls away from the problem.

I have sympathy for this. I understand being afraid that you can't - and never will be able to - do something. I also know that this is a thought, not a fact. It FEELS like a fact but it's not. For me, I need to "catch myself" in this thought error.

Once I see it and consider it, then I can calm down. I THINK that he might learn this skill too. It's called "check the facts" where I learned it. He's had some success using it - as long as the problem is not too overwhelming. That's typical for ANYONE learning this skill - so I have some home that he can use it too. As long as he keeps practicing it.


Anyway, thanks for taking the time to explain further what you said in your first message. I did indeed connect with some of what you said and I appreciate you saying it.
Joe

Although I'm sure you're right, and this is part of what is happening, I would like to point out a few other things that may not be as obvious. First, it could be that actually working out the problem is far more exhausting for him than you realise, and this is one of the reasons he tries to avoid it. I'm not sure this is what is happening - but I do know that many of us find certain ordinary tasks exhausting. I can fill out an income tax return (long form) in less than two hours, including checking it over - but when I'm done, I feel as if I've been up for six days straight, wrestling powerful, invisible - and very evil - forces in my brain the whole time.

It is hard to explain the kind of mental exhaustion I'm trying to describe, because I'm not sure that anyone NT experiences anything like it. (Perhaps they do; I have never heard anyone say anything that reminds me of it, though.) But it is incredibly difficult to overcome. Combine that with the fact that we have immense trouble focusing on anything that doesn't interest us, and I don't even know where the line is between trying to avoid the work and being incapable of getting to grips with it. At least if you understand the forces that may be acting on him, you'll be in a better position to observe, or even to ask him about it if you think he would be willing to discuss it.

Then, and I don't know how unusual this is, but there is another possibility. I am actually very good at math. I was told by one of my teachers in high school that I ought to become an accountant. But it felt wrong to me; doing math feels like putting my mind in chains. Cold, hard, rusty ones that are tight and cut into the flesh. I prefer the greater expression and flexibility of words, and trying to do math feels as if I've been sentenced to serve as a galley slave, complete with the overseer applying his whip to my back. Again, it is not at all easy to force yourself into that sort of position.

I do think you're right about at least some of what is going on; I just am not sure if it isn't also more complex than you suspect. Or, it may not be. If you believed that you'd starve if you didn't earn a certain amount of money, there are probably a lot of tasks you could force yourself to do in order to escape that fate. When I believe the same thing, I'm in trouble. No amount of desperation or terror, no amount of effort, is enough to force my mind to focus on something that is not interesting to me. The mental mechanism to do that just isn't there. It isn't just that I won't, or don't want to; I literally do not know how. The one thing that will motivate me more strongly than anything is any threat to my cats - I will do things for them I wouldn't do to save my own neck. Yet even when I've feared I wouldn't be able to give them what they needed, when I was physically sick with worry for them, I could not make myself focus on anything I considered dull. I still can't. He may not be paying attention and evading any effort to make him solve math problems because he is similarly unable to force himself to focus, and simply not even know how to explain this to you. I'm a writer, and I couldn't have even begun to explain until I was eighteen or so - and then, I wrote a poem ("On Words and Numbers" ) that probably wouldn't make sense to an NT. They would think I was saying I didn't like math, not that my mind literally rejected it. It was only after I turned forty that I began to develop any ability to explain myself as I am trying to now, and I was only a year short of fifty before I learned how - with a lot of thought and effort - to put myself in someone else's head enough to explain in a way that might make sense to them.