Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 

sleepless168
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 68

05 Feb 2008, 6:39 pm

For some time I've been developing (in my mind) this somewhat alternative theory on how in the mind aspergers affects people. I say its un-scientific because it's just theoretical, I came up with it by different observations. Maybe some scientist already came up with this, if you know of it, please send me a link or something.

I often think about the nature of conscience. Little is known about what it is, and nobody really knows where it resides. Theres is this anecdote of a girl who had major epilleptic seizures, so the doctors decided to take out the left hemisphere of her briain (this is a last resort epilepsy treatement). The girl used to like to tell knock knock jokes, and she knew many. The parents worried that the girl might lose her personality and/or memories after the operation, but the doctors wouldnt promise anything, because its a delicate procedure. After the operation, the girl still told knock knock jokes. Then they operated this other girl, which liked the same jokes, but took the other hemisphere, and the same as the other she still said knock knock jokes. So the doctors wondered (as sort of a joke) Where are the knock knock jokes stored in the brain? Suffice to say that both girls kept her overall personality and were relatively better in health after the operation.

Anyway, the real question is what is the conscience? and where is it stored in the brain. Some scientists say it's not a unique separate phenomenon, but one that creates through several different phenonema interconnected in the brain. I tend to think the conscience as if it were spatially somewhere in the brain, and like it can move to one place of the brain and another. For example, when we learn a new trait that requires physical skills, the conscience 'moves' to the part of the brain that handles motor skills and starts changing neural pathways so that this translates in 'learning'. When the skill is learned, the conscience no longer has to move to that place completely, but merely 'streches' an activates it. Like when we drive, the experienced driver doesnt think about driving, he just does it. You just have to concentrate on the changing things in the surrounding, but the rest is donde automatically. But when you learned, you had to watch your every movement, your hand, your foot, the pressure on pedal etc. And your conscience (as well as your attention) had to be all over this motor skills and coordinate them.

Now, what happens with aspergers according to this? I don't know other people, but sometimes I feel like if that part of the brain that handles emotion and people skills in general was kind of blocked to me. It's not that it's not there, it's more like I don't have easy access to it.
Where is the seat of the conscience? Where does our consciense stay most of the time according to this hypothesis? I believe NT people have their conscience on the part of the brain that handles emotions, at least for most of the time. Where does AS people have the seat of their conscience? I believe that as we cannot 'seat' our conscience in the emotions, we move it to the more rational part of the brain, and thus we see everything through logic and reason, rather than emotion. I believe this is the reason why AS and NT are so much alike, and the same time so different. We are alike because our brains are basically the same, the only difference is AS doesn't have full access to the brain.
This would also explain savant skills from the Aspergers people. As our conscience cannot reside in the emotions place, then it sticks to a another certain part of the brain and develops that part and gets comfortable in it, and in the process a savant skill is born. That would also explain why we don't have the same savant skill, as the conscience can choose any different place to 'stay'. Or the conscience simply sticks with the part of the brain that is more connected to the emotions, and develops that part, because it's his only way to access them easily. That may be the reason we get all excited to talk about our favorite subject.

If this seems far-fetched, look for this experiment on the Internet: a group of scientists wondered about how a savant skill works. They decided to electromagnetically temporarily and reversibly damage the brains of 'normal' people in a hemisphere, or a part of the brain, and they discovered that temporarily people would get savant skills, like being able to solve difficult mathematical problems with ease. When the induced 'damage' was taken out, they returned to their normal selves.

As I said, I don't have proof, but I believe it to be truth at least to some degree, and I wanted to share it here.



Sedaka
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,597
Location: In the recesses of my mind

05 Feb 2008, 6:44 pm

the brain is amazing. it's vary plastic (in an adaptive sense) and it's been shown that regions can compensate and even take over for functions of other regions that are damaged to some degree.

it's not known what causes consciousness... i'm starting a journal club this term on the most current theories on this topic... i'll be glad to post more on what we discuss once we've looked into what all the differing ideas are and discuss them at length.


_________________
Neuroscience PhD student

got free science papers?

www.pubmed.gov
www.sciencedirect.com
http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl


riverotter
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 970
Location: the frosty midwest

05 Feb 2008, 8:30 pm

You would probably enjoy the book Born on a Blue Day by Daniel Tammet. It is his autobiobraphy of life with AS and he describes his history of epileptic seizures, to which he attributes his savant skills.



Dantac
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,672
Location: Florida

06 Feb 2008, 3:58 am

I don't know exactly where it is as im no neurosurgeon but my guess is it will be wherever the brain generates its electrical impulses.

somewhere in the cerebellum. The 'brain' is really nothing more than one damned sophisticated hard drive/ram/cpu ... but what really makes it work is the power supply.

you will find consciousness there I think.



scumsuckingdouchebag
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 521

06 Feb 2008, 4:07 am

I know little of how the brain works, but I often wonder if each individual neuron could be compared to a transistor. From there an answer might be found. Dantac's post is a very good comparison and warrants further investigation.



Inventor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,014
Location: New Orleans

06 Feb 2008, 5:45 am

I like it.

Where is the center? I think it moves. Some major Hologram, and the combinations of point of view, and centers of activity, are endless.

I think I have normal emotions, communication skills, which I view with all the feeling of a math problem.

We are a long way from understanding. Once it was thought simple, areas, a probe brought a sense of smell, Ah! The Ofactory Area, but wiggle the probe and a memory of being in a garden as a child, and that smell is but part of a memory, yet it is not stored just there, for removing half the brain does not eradicate memory.

Like a Hologram, memory is stored defused through the whole. If I could figure that one out, I would build a Hard drive. But I cannot, so I play with the one I have.

Sedaka, I will look forward to reading your journal.

The main problem is all theories seem to work, for they all come from the brain, which has millions of ways of seeing things, and infering their meaning. One new bit of learning changes all.

It could be that one neuron on a life support and communication chip, may know everything. We may have trillions of minds, it does look like a colony.

It is the ultimate field of Art and Science.



sleepless168
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 68

08 Feb 2008, 12:03 am

the power supply theory looks good, ive heard of the cpu/hdd analogy but not the power. Though I personally believe (lol like beauty peageant girl) that consciousness is more complex, still it seems a good perspective.

I also forgot to write that something that makes me support the theory I wrote about, is that it seems that with some stimuli I am able to reach my emotions like an NT, or alike, and for one second there I 'get' the NT perspective. It has happened a few times, alcohol helps for example (like some posts have already written about this), also some hormones seem to put the block away temporarily, if at least for a few seconds. That's why I believe our brain is essentialy the same in AS and NT, there just seems to be a block.

ty for the suggestion of the book riverotter, ill look for it, i bet it has some good insights.



bear7699
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 7 Feb 2008
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 52

08 Feb 2008, 1:06 am

the brain is not amazing, it's just a brain, it doesn't amaze me, what does amaze me is how some people manage to breath

and aspergers is just not being able to make small talk



xyzyxx
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Aug 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 526
Location: Iowa

08 Feb 2008, 1:10 am

bear7699 wrote:
the brain is not amazing, it's just a brain, it doesn't amaze me, what does amaze me is how some people manage to breath

and aspergers is just not being able to make small talk
If you don't think your brain so so amazing, can I have it? :P



bear7699
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 7 Feb 2008
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 52

08 Feb 2008, 1:37 am

xyzyxx wrote:
bear7699 wrote:
the brain is not amazing, it's just a brain, it doesn't amaze me, what does amaze me is how some people manage to breath

and aspergers is just not being able to make small talk
If you don't think your brain so so amazing, can I have it? :P


no because my brain is better than yours



xyzyxx
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Aug 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 526
Location: Iowa

08 Feb 2008, 9:42 am

bear7699 wrote:
xyzyxx wrote:
bear7699 wrote:
the brain is not amazing, it's just a brain, it doesn't amaze me, what does amaze me is how some people manage to breath

and aspergers is just not being able to make small talk
If you don't think your brain so so amazing, can I have it? :P


no because my brain is better than yours
But you don't want it, right?



sleepless168
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 68

08 Feb 2008, 3:44 pm

bear7699 wrote:
religion is BS there is no such thing as god or jesus, they are both fictitional If i ever met jesus I would anally rape him


wow, a troll :)

What is trolling? clic here



bear7699
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 7 Feb 2008
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 52

08 Feb 2008, 10:30 pm

sleepless168 wrote:
bear7699 wrote:
religion is BS there is no such thing as god or jesus, they are both fictitional If i ever met jesus I would anally rape him


wow, a troll :)

What is trolling? clic here


dumbasses like you are the reason I stay away from forums like this, if you don't like what i say then ignore me or reply with anything other, calling me a childs playtoy from the 90's, actually just STFU